Laura Westman - Author, How To Be Creative in the Age of Digital Noise

Fan favorite Laura Westman is back for round two on the show to share why she had to write her brand new book, what we should know how to continue to be creative when it's easy not to and educates Jason on some Harry Potter fan fiction.

Laura Westman - is a Professional Certified Coach, author of How to Be Creative in the Age of Digital Noise, and co-host of West of Wonderland Podcast. She has ten years of experience coaching people in the intersection of leadership and creativity in their lives, and a background as an improv teacher. She believes we all have the power to define our lives and to command resources to fulfill on our dreams, believe the world is better off when we have joy in our creativity and feel secure and steady.  She lives in the Hudson Valley with her husband Cody, and their dog and cat, Ringo and Rocket.

https://www.laurawestman.com/
https://www.amazon.com/How-Creative-Age-Digital-Noise-ebook/dp/B0BVJDQ8RQ

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Transcript

Jason Frazell: 0:11

My guest today is very, very excited about this one, Laura Westman, second time podcast guest. First time solo podcast guest. I had you and our and your good friend and my friend Bay LeBlanc on last year to talk mostly about your life as a podcaster. So you and Bay have a podcast called West of Wonderland. It's amazing. You two are Disney fanatics. What? Yeah. Yeah. Like what? Disney? What's that? Disney Fanatics. And you and Bay have created a podcast that is about Disney and coaching because you're both coaches. Mm-hmm. And now Laura is back on for a very special episode where we are just gonna talk about creative projects. And the reason I say we're gonna talk about creative projects is because Laura Westman has her very own creative project to talk to us about, which is a book. So Laura wrote a book and here we are. So the name of the book is How to Be Creative in the Age of Digital Noise. Yes. And as somebody who relates to themselves, relates themselves as wildly creative in some ways, and so wildly uncreative in others, I cannot wait to to get some expertise or get some get some of your magic cuz there's some ways where I just feel so uncreative. So for the audience, I just want to, I want to kind of break down the book and it's a small book and then we're gonna talk through each of these a little bit. So part one is about shedding light on the ecosystems, your ecosystems you're in. Part two is about embracing your true voice and part three. It's about creating your own experience. So Laura, welcome back. So good to

Laura Westman: 1:40

have you here. Thank you. Thanks Jason. It's so great to be here. I was gonna ask, can you believe it if, if I get like a special jacket or, or trophy or tote bag for being on two times or something,

Jason Frazell: 1:52

You know, it's kind of like, what do they call that on CNET Live when they have like the five time, like Justin Timberlake and a few other people, they do a special event? Well, I don't know. I've had my buddy Steve Drum on three times now and he's a navy. Seals. So he might kill me if I don't give him something first, like literally could kill me. Oh my God. I don't know. A thumbs up. Would that be appropriate? Yeah, I'll take it. That sounds great. A, a virtual thumbs up. Well, Laura, totally, I'm so excited to have you back on today. As you know, my format of this show is generally I have a little more structure to, but today we're just literally gonna talk about what you've been up to and congratulations on being a published author. I'd love to say this to all the authors. I have the world of respect for this because it sounds like my version of hell. Sitting down and writing the book is something. No, I mean, and I always like to start with authors and ask them the question, you know, normally the question is why did you write the book? But I like to phrase it as, when did you know you needed to write this book? Because I've never met an author. Yeah. Every author I know is like, this is something I needed to do because it's not easy. Yeah. Well that's, so when did you know you needed to write it? So

Laura Westman: 2:54

this book came together in some ways over the scope of many years. And in some ways it came together physically very quickly. So I think it's sort of a, a both and of, like, the idea for this has kind of been cooking for a long time. But I, I think it was just mid-January of this year that I, I woke up and it was almost like the idea had been planted in my mental inbox overnight. Almost like in a dream. And the book just had to get written. I just took some time. I started working on it. I kind of treated it like a job for maybe a couple of weeks. Mm-hmm. And a month later, here it is. Ready to go. So it's like, I, I think the content at which, you know, because you've read through the book. Yeah. The content has been a huge part of my life, just like bubbling and bubbling and brewing over time. And I think it was honestly just this moment of, okay, there's I, you know, as a coach, there's some things that you learn, and coaching isn't all about us and what we know, but sometimes we have a lot to offer. You know, so, mm-hmm. I think I, I noticed over the last couple of years, I've been having the same conversation with people over and over about how stressed they are about their creativity. Because the internet exists and because of social media and like how, you know, it's tentacles have just reached very, very far and it, it just continues to go. And in some ways that's amazing for, for the. The possibility of creativity and getting your stuff in front of people. But I think for many of us it actually is, I, this sounds a little bit dramatic, but I think it also can be very poisonous to the parts of us that just like to play very freely and mm-hmm. And create and experiment and have fun. And so I, I think. I just, it became very clear to me mid-January that there was a gift to give the world from my brain and from my experience. And I think the most accessible way to do that was to actually just make it into a short, very digestible book. Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 5:01

You know? There it is. Yeah. Yeah. And by short, I've got it right here in front of me. I've got a signed copy cuz I'm cool like that. It's Besides, it's 65 pages.

Laura Westman: 5:13

Yeah. I just, you know, Jason, I work in the realm of professional development, as you know. Yeah. And I have so many self-help books that I have read, like 15% of, and then I'm, I totally just can't get any further. No. And so I didn't wanna contribute to more quote unquote digital noise in people's space by giving them something that they're not gonna finish. You know,

Jason Frazell: 5:36

you're like, here's how to be creative and, and get out there and do your thing in 5,800 pages. Like no of Yeah. Small. Right. Well, so Laura, I, I wanna go into, before we talk about what some of the content in the book, I wanna talk about what you mean by be creative because that is a very subjective term. So how do you, how do you define being creative or be creative?

Laura Westman: 6:03

It's a great question, especially because I think for anybody listening who doesn't really think. They are a particularly creative person or you know, people like you, you have some spaces where you feel like you are deeply creative and somewhere you're like, it's just a no-go. It's a no-go. Yeah, I think that a lot of times we kind of accidentally conflate being creative with being artistic. Yeah. And I think there are two different things. Mm-hmm. Personally, my belief is that being creative is really about a sense of personal power. And kind of like using some innate guidance system that we don't even always know where it's coming from, but there's some, some thing within us that helps us do things like put together really good meals or assemble stuff or create things for our business or even, you know, come up with meeting agendas, for example. These are all creative acts. We just don't always think about them that way. Yeah. And I think that when we're doing things like that, there's a bunch of tiny little micro choices that we're making all the time. You know, we're making, we're choosing this instead of this thing, or we're rearranging, or we're deciding this, we're deciding this. We innately have this internal compass driving us all the time, and we just don't always think about it as creativity. But that's definitely what it is.

Jason Frazell: 7:24

Yeah, I really like the point. Of artistic versus creative. That is exactly how I related to myself until about five years ago. I, I would always say to people like, I'm not creative. I'm good at doing stuff, but I'm not good at creativity, but it's just like not true. Cause I'm extremely creative in, I know that now that I'm extremely creative in certain ways, but, I really like that as a delineation because that o like opens up so much possibility for people that like, and you said it, just to give you an example, if you asked me to paint something in watercolor, I don't even know if I would know what to do. Like It just wouldn't be a thing that I know what to do. But if you said, Hey, can we brainstorm my new business models? I would have a million ideas for you. Right? And

Laura Westman: 8:06

like, how creative is that?

Jason Frazell: 8:07

So yeah, how creative is that? But, but even five years ago I'd be like, well, that's not really creative. That's more business strategy. But no, that's like creativity or if I, well,

Laura Westman: 8:14

yeah, yeah. Because yeah, like first of all, I think if you're having fun doing it, That is a good sign that there's like some creative energy happening. Yes. And also with brainstorming things like that, especially someone like you, Jason, part of what's also happening is like a synthesizing of all of the, the experience that you've ever had. There's also this like dancing with different ideas and possibilities and like what could be, there's a lot of connections being made and things getting put together. So to me, a brainstorming session even about business, it can be like a deeply creative. Experience, you know?

Jason Frazell: 8:49

Yeah. One thing I'll, I'll share about my v my vision or my experience with relating more to creativity is when I realized that it doesn't have to be right and that No, I, it's like the idea, and, and a lot of businesses have embraced this too, at least for, it's like, no idea is a bad idea. Cause I think like, oh, that's a bad idea. We can't talk about like, no, what if it wasn't a bad idea? And it's just, but we don't have to do anything with it either. Like that. That's opened up a lot for me too, I think from like doing the work. The coaching work and such too, just realizing like it's not that black and white either. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's so cool. So let's talk about well I want to ask you a question about writing the book. Did you find the writing of the book itself to be a creative experience for you?

Laura Westman: 9:32

Yes. There was something getting created and there was a part of me in the writing of this book. I sort of had this out of body experience when I was doing it. It, I wrote it very quickly. Mm-hmm. Part of how, when it comes to like producing creative things, like not just being creative or playing piano or being in my creative joy, like actually producing something when I get really clear about like the, the form something is supposed to take, I can fill it in very quickly. So it was crazy. It was like I knew I wanted to create a book, like an actual physical product. Yeah. And I knew what the title was. And once I had those two things down, it just happened so fast. Amazing. I was like, what are the sections? How do we begin? What is the introduction that needs to get written so that people can really hear themselves in this and use this as the tool that I really intended to be, you know? Yeah. I think with the exception of some of the, of the section about like, My story and my vocal nodes and some of the, the anecdotes about like theater camp and stuff. I even asked my editor if it was too much and she was like, no, it's actually very entertaining, you know? So cause I, I, I just, I didn't want this to be like, you know, it's not like my memoir book. It's like there are pieces of me in it, but I really wanted it to be a tool that people can use to get into action and even come back to over and over, you know, when they're actually feeling. The stuck energy again,

Jason Frazell: 11:06

you know? Yeah. Before we go into the book here, I do have one more question because you're also, you mentioned this, you're a, you're a musician, so you play a few instruments, but you also are a songwriter, I mean, a musician and songwriter. I am, this is another place where I am a decent guitar player, but I don't know how to write songs, nor does it really call to me. I'd rather, I'd rather either improvise over somebody else's stuff or just play somebody else's stuff. When you're writing songs, lyrics, chords, like the whole thing, do you have a similar experience where you're like, once you kinda land on, oh, this is the feel I want, does it come naturally for you to fill in lyrics and, you know melody, harmony, et cetera?

Laura Westman: 11:48

What a cool question. Sometimes. Sometimes, no. Hmm. I don't have one of the things that I enjoy a lot about my songwriting process is I don't have one. No, that sounds great. You know, like, I love that there's like a. Like, so in, in my course Intangible Creatives Academy, there is a module where I have legitimately outlined seven different pieces of your creative process and, and part of what the module does is it helps you chart which ones of those are very fun and easy and pleasurable versus which ones are really challenging. Just so you have a scope of like the arc of your own creative process. Yeah. Yes, I just said that out loud. Yes, it is a thing and yes, it is so cool and helpful. That's fun. And one of the sections like the second to last section is called the bringing it in for a landing section. Mm-hmm. You know, when you're like pulling everything together, you're like actually finishing something. And so in some ways like that, Part of the process, both for the book and for writing songs for me is consistent. Where there's like this, it does feel like a plane coming into land. You know, you're like making sure everything is going in the same direction and like tying up loose ends and stuff like that. But for the most part there are sometimes, I read a little bit about this in the book actually. There's sometimes when. Part of a song will just like occur to me out of nowhere. I've heard people talk about this, a lot of creative people and songwriters talk about how like, they're kind of like little raindrops or like gifts from above. Like you don't know where they come from, but they just like show up in your brain. And so I make a habit out of capturing them and then sometimes picking it back up later. One of the songs in my ep, the song Moving Out, the Laura song, if you will Yeah. Is one where like a little piece of that just dropped in once and I just tinkered with it over and over, over like a couple of months until suddenly it was like, this is the song. And then there are other times when. I hear part of a song and the whole thing just sort of writes itself very quickly, and that's just what it is. And I It's non-negotiable. Yeah. So

Jason Frazell: 13:53

everything you're describing now is, this is where I'm like, that's foreign to me. I, mm. This is another example. Like if you told me, Hey, let's go paint watercolors, I'd be like, it's gonna look like a blob of water on the paper. I'm gonna tell you that right now. If you said, Hey, Jason, we're gonna sit down, or we're gonna write a song together. I would have, I wouldn't even know where to begin other than the most basic music theory, cuz I understand music theory. But if you said to me, Hey Jason, can you play guitar for me on this track? I'd say, Hey, what key are we playing in and what's the feel you want? And then I could do it. So I'm realizing in a lot of my creative endeavors, I'm not so good at a zero to one type of function. Like a zero to one. Like, I don't know what the thing is, but I want to do it where I'm, where I'm leaning into and realizing where I'm, I do my best creative work is when, hey, what's the basic guardrails we have? And I'm also, I know this isn't, a lot of people would say, this isn't quite as creative, artistic. If you can tell me the output, I'm usually better. Like I'm, I'm usually like, my brain just works that way. Maybe it's like business training, but what's the output we're hearing? The output is, oh, like we're gonna have a track that's three and a half minutes long and. I want you to play the melody line and you're gonna have mini solo or a company versus like, Hey, we're gonna create a piece of music. I'm, I'm, mm-hmm. I just don't. I could probably get there or work on it, but it's not something that comes natural for me at all.

Laura Westman: 15:10

Yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah. I also often wish I operated more Like you. Like for me, yeah. If you were like, Hey Laura, let's write a piece of music. I'd be like, okay, what does it need to feel like? Do you have any ideas? What do, where should we st Where you wanna begin? That mean, you know? Yeah, totally. Like, and you know, the other thing too, I did not write about this at all in the book, but it's a really important part of my relationship with my creativity. So I started taking piano lessons when I was five. Mm-hmm. I have pretty small hands. But I've been, I took lessons for a very long time. It was just like part of me, and there came a point when I was a teenager when, first of all, because my hands are small. I'm, you know, a lot of the classical pieces that you learn when you're taking piano lessons one-to-one like that for so long you need. You just need a bigger wingspan than I have. Yeah. But the other thing is that I have always been a person who feels the music more so than I want to be instructed as to how to deliver the music. Mm-hmm. You know, when I was younger, my mom used to say something like, well, you know, Laura, just you, I don't, God, what was it that she to say? It was something along the lines of like you know, she's very expressive in her playing or something like that. Very expressive, you know? Yeah. Thank you. Gretchen. Wes Smith. You're like that, that,

Jason Frazell: 16:30

I like that.

Laura Westman: 16:31

Well, it's, it's interesting because like, Part of my personal creative renaissance, like coming back into my creativity after leaving it for a while is realizing how much it took a long time for me to even own the word musician because in my mind, if you are a musician, you are proficient in multiple instruments. You definitely don't have vocal nodes or recovering from vocal nodes. That's a no-no. Yeah, yeah. Or you've been to music school and for me, like my relationship with the piano these days, like yes, I can sight read. Okay. But like, What I'm much better at is like if you give me a chord progression and you let me listen to the song for a while and then I can comp and it's no problem and it's really fun. Yeah. In fact, the only way that I really like to cover songs is like getting really used to them and then kind of. Putting my own spin on it. Yeah. But I get very anxious if I, like, I haven't played any of the songs on my EP with the band live and I'd be very anxious to do it. Cause I get very caught up in the music and I, it's like hard for me to focus on more than one on like, singing versus piano. Like, it's something I, it's easier for me to do alone cuz if I mess up Yeah. Tempo wise it's just me, you know? Yeah. It's just you. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it's one of those things where I think especially since we moved up here to the Hudson Valley and I now have like an actual upright piano instead of just a keyboard. I've really been starting to understand that it's not that I'm technically proficient, I mean technically. Technically not proficient, I suppose. Mm-hmm. It's that I just have a different way of engaging with the instrument and it's a lot more intuitive and feelings based than let me sit down and hit all the perfect notes in perfect rhythm. It just, it's a very different way to engage with it.

Jason Frazell: 18:15

Well, we've given the audience now, Laura, two examples of how this plays out in your book. So I'm gonna take a very brief commercial break. We come back, we're gonna actually talk through each of the parks a little parts a little bit and have you give us the concept here. So we'll be right back after this. All right, Laura, we're back. So Laura, part one of the book is in, is titled Shedding Light on the Ecosystems You Are In. Yes. What a mysterious, what a mysterious and Filled with What exactly does that mean? So Laura, what does that mean? And what. What do you want the audience to know about that?

Laura Westman: 19:33

So it's my belief that those of us who have like a relationship with our creativity, we soak up stuff around us. And sometimes it's conscious and sometimes it's helpful, and sometimes it's not conscious and sometimes it's negative. And a lot of the challenges that I think creative people have in the age of digital noise, so to speak, is that we are constantly just surrounded by input without a lot of filtration as to like what the input. Is even doing or giving us, and the thesis of this book, how to Be Creative in the Age of Digital Noise is really about answering that question as like for you personally, how do you. Become your creative self again with all of this noise all around you all the time. So the very first step of being able to identify any different habits is to really first take a look and distinguish what are the different. Components of the world that are surrounding me all the time. And I like to think about them like ecosystems because Yeah, that's, that's what they are like, yeah. When it's social media, it's your digital ecosystem. When it's your home, it's your home ecosystem, it's your work, it's your work ecosystem. And I think it's important to think about it that way because I think some outdated models of thinking would probably, sorry. Outdated sounds so like, like a know everything, but I just think like it, it's common I think in the realm of Coaching and professional development to think about yourself as a silo and that the goal, mm-hmm. Of making changes is to make you more productive on whatever topic it is that you're trying to do. Yeah. But I think that that's actually discounting a lot of the needs of creative people. Like we don't exist in a silo. And to give advice based on the presumption that we do exist in a silo. It's just not gonna work. Yeah. And I think it's like, I think it's one of the biggest challenges when it comes to creativity in the digital age is like, you know, you're scrolling all the time. You're seeing. Work that other people are doing. You're seeing like, I don't know about you, but because I'm a coach, a lot of my feed is like the the stuff from other coaches that are like, here's my cool tip. And they have branding and they have this and they have that. And it's just like all these little tiny moments. You're taking things in, you're seeing it. But also there is a little part of our minds that is also making it mean something. Usually making it mean something about us. You know, it's why they call it dooms scrolling is because it just like takes you further and further down your spiral of doom. So there, I, I think it's really useful to think about it like we are participating in these different ecosystems. We're exchanging energy between us and other people, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. But we're also receiving so that. Part of the book is really about helping you identify what they are and then really getting very clear over time about like, okay, what, what's in the water, so to speak, in these different ecosystems. What am I soaking up? What's getting in my way? What's helpful, what's not helpful? Because you know, like, I don't know Jason. I think that to be letting yourself be creative in any way requires breathing space from the part of us that needs to like perform and do really well. And so, yeah. There is, for a lot of people, most of the time, most of their workday is not like an emotionally safe time for them to be feeling very creative and inspired. Yeah. Cuz they've got that other thing on. Yeah. Yeah, and then they go home and they make themselves wrong for how tired they are and how hard it is to work on their creative project. It's like, yeah, that's not you. That's your ecosystem, you

Jason Frazell: 23:18

know? Yeah. You're like, Hey, boss, I, I know you're paying me this salary to be in sales or accounting, but I'd love to spend four hours just brainstorming on my next creative project. I'm like, No, we're not paying you for that. No, no. Cool. Totally sounds great to do on the weekend. Laura, thanks so much for bringing it at least. But I know that's what the weekends were. We're not paying you for that. We're paying you for productivity and results. Yikes. I

Laura Westman: 23:45

know. Well, it's funny, I I recently got to do, I was on a little mini panel about the relationship between creativity and. Wellbeing, but also what we're really talking about there is a professional development space. You know often. We need to justify spending our free time on our creativity. Like it's just a thing. You know, the more that's on your plate, the harder it is to be like, I'm gonna work on this thing that doesn't require results or output, or it's just frivolous and it's fun and whatever. The irony is when you use your creative outlet, what you're really doing is charging up your batteries. To go off and do the other things that are actually Yeah, harder and more challenging and need more focus. But we don't usually think about it that way. But it is true. It's called a creative outlet for a reason. Like it's, yeah, you get to kind of channel that energy into something. Everything else flows better. We just don't think about it that way.

Jason Frazell: 24:36

Yeah. So now, if we've we're setting the journey here through your book and through the journey that you are teaching, sharing your personal experiences, you've, so as a like, As a person who's reading this and they're doing this journey, they've become more aware of the ecosystems they're in, versus what I hear there is like being automatic doom scrolling, I'm at work, and you don't think about it being more thoughtful about, Hey, what are the different inputs from the world that are potentially opening me up or closing me down to my creativity? So what's next in your book is embracing your true voice. Mm-hmm. That title implies that you. You that we all have a true voice. It also opposite implies that there's something in the way of that or em embrace or that there's something in the way that our true voice, many of us don't, don't embrace. At least the title implies that because of what? So what? What do we want people to know about this section specifically and this part of the journey.

Laura Westman: 25:37

Yeah, thanks. So, This, I, I really appreciate the way that you just put that about like, there is an assertion in, in, even in that title that we all do have a true voice, so to speak. I think for a lot of creative people, part of where there's a lot of like spinning of wheels and inertia is thinking about things like how do I know I'm doing something that is like the highest and best use of my creativity? Or I don't know where to start. Or something, something, something like your, your watercolor example is actually a really good example because if I like left you to your own devices and I gave you paper and watercolor and pencil or paintbrush, pencils have fun, Jason. If I gave you everything that you needed and was like, I don't know, just make me something that says, Jason, there, you would create something. Okay. Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 26:32

You would probably think my two year old did it, but yes, I would create something. Yeah. Like something would, Charlie would, you'd be like, oh, that's a nice little picture that your two year old did. Yeah, yeah. No, that was me. No, that was the

Laura Westman: 26:41

Totally. Well, but there would be something about it that is distinctly you because you Yeah. Made it. There's a style. Even if it is the wrong medium, there's gonna be something about it that is innately you. And so that is the, the piece of this that I'm tapping into is innately there is a creative essence in all of us. That can drive us in any direction that we wanna go to. So no matter what kind of project we're working on or what industry we're working in, we can always tap into that specific part of us to help guide us through whatever it is that we're working on. And it's important to me that this was the second piece of this book, because often when we're trying to like, get through the muck, The, the digital noise so to speak, or just the noise in any of our ecosystems? Some of what we're left with is a lot of questions about like, okay, if I'm not overstimulated all the time, like what am I doing creatively? I mean it's a little dramatic, but there is often an existential question there about like, so who am I? And when you're picking up your creativity after maybe it letting it be dormant for a long time, we. Come to believe that there is some big showy coming out process of like, this is who I am. Look at my album, look at my painting, look at, you know. But that puts way too much pressure on our creative self. Way too much pressure. So how are you supposed to create something? Lovely and vulnerable and cool. And you, if you're constantly looking at like, how does it look and how does it look and how does it look and what are we gonna do with it, et cetera. So that chapter really slows you down. And that's part of the, the book where I'm sharing about my literal loss of my voice mm-hmm. For so many years. And that wasn't something I intended to write about when I started the book. But the more that I thought about how I want people to think about coming home to their creative self, I was like, oh. So part of that for me is definitely my relationship with my literal voice and the loss of it, not only as an outlet for my creativity, but also an outlet for joyfulness and my life and like a connection to myself. You know, and the o So one of the exercises in that section, and by the way, for any of you listening the book does actually have specific exercises for you to work on and work through this stuff. So you've got some really specific things to do. The one of the exercises in that section is actually about you. Being able to start writing a little bit of the story of your relationship with your creativity so far. Just to kind of get a little bit of a bird's eye view, a little bit of altitude over the relationship you've had with your creative self. And I say in the book, consider returning to this exercise multiple times because it will change as you grow. But it will also reveal to you the parts of your creative voice that are very authentic and very true. Cuz they'll just keep showing up over and over and over.

Jason Frazell: 29:56

Yeah. Real. That's, I love that. So you, so the journey is get present to what's true or the context that you're living in, the ecosystems. In that case, how is it? I would and I don't, you don't say this in the book, but I would say that when you get present to the ecosystems, All of these ecosystems are either adding or subtracting from your ability to find your true voice at all times. Yeah, there's not, there's not only like equal thing. We, one of the, the places that I do training work at is we talk about everything you say as a speaker either adds to your power or subtracts to it. There's not really any neutral thing. So once you've kinda said, oh, like, wow, at work I feel like my creativity is crushed, but when I get home and I'm painting or I'm composing, that's an amazing place where I feel it going up. You get clear on that and then you get clear on embracing what's true for you. And the third part of the book is at that point, creating your own experience. So exp, first of all, question, experience of what, and then love to hear like what do you want people to know about that section? Great.

Laura Westman: 31:04

So creating your own experience of being creative in the age of digital noise. Bottom line. There it is. Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 31:12

Look at, look at that callback. It all comes back to the title of the book. Amazing. It does. I'm telling

Laura Westman: 31:17

you. Yeah. It, it, it like wrote itself when I sat down to do it. Did. So that's important because the, this third section really is a bit of a line in the sand that the book is kind of working towards to help you really get to a point where you're, you're actually willing to be the one saying, okay, this is the experience I want for myself of my creativity. Digital noise is, is part of the world right now. Who do I wanna be about it? And really specifically, what does that look like for my day-to-day life and my relationship with my creativity or my relationship with social media? Or whichever part of digital noise really speaks to you. So in Coach Speak, this would be the at cause invitation. Hmm. And so there's that context shift of moving from being impacted to actually being fully at cause for what you need to be your creative self given all these different ecosystems that are in your world. And then that third section is a very tactical, strategic look at what does that actually mean? What are the systems and structures? Hey, do you wanna actually go fully analog and cut digital noise out completely? Here's some things to think about. Or are you gonna opt in and actually create a very supportive and hopefully not difficult relationship with these digital spaces? What does that actually look like? And I think the book hopefully does a good, a solid job of really normalizing the addictive nature of social media. You know, so this isn't one of those books that's gonna gaslight you into being like, you should just love for your screen time. You know, this is like, let's actually talk about the layers behind the, those moments when it's hard to, hard to put down your phone and focus on your own stuff. Yeah. And how can we create better habits for you that actually really support you being able to, to creatively thrive and also mindfully engage with the digital world?

Jason Frazell: 33:11

Yeah. It's. The social media thing is interesting because I know you and I trade some, some cool stuff on, on social. I don't create any, I don't do anything creative on social media. Other, I guess, like I talk about my podcast, but I see a lot of the cool stuff on Instagram and it's, it like inspires me. I'm like, oh, that's really, and I think it's really cool. So there's an idea that I think in here, what I hear in all of this messages also comparison is the death of your creativity. Yes. So if you look at that person, like just to call him out, I don't know his name, but I know you and I both love him. The DJ who like mixes in, like Harry Potter, he's my Star Wars Mandalorian as a wedding dj, wildly creative. I enjoy it immensely and I don't look at him and go. And I don't ever look at him and go, Ooh, I, I wish I was him. It's more like, what's my version of that thing? Because there's something that I think all of us have that would be cuz that's such a unique thing. Mm-hmm. And what I hear is like, what's my unique version of that creativity? And maybe it isn't a business strategy session. Like, how could I combine two things that I'm passionate about into like this one thing? Mm-hmm. And how social media gets such a bad rap. I'm like, oh, it's doom scrolling. Yeah. Totally. The doom. To me, the doom comes from comparing yourself. Yes,

Laura Westman: 34:24

a hundred percent.

Jason Frazell: 34:25

Not from the fact that there are people doing really cool creative things on social media or or in anywhere. Totally.

Laura Westman: 34:32

There's a section where I'm talking about like, Structures and practices for different choices with stuff like this. And so I have people actually make a list of the intentions that they have for their use of social media mm-hmm. And getting really specific about those intentions. And then I provide some lists of like, here's some common ones and one of them actually is to go get inspired. Yeah. And then I wrote, this doesn't usually work for me because of the comparison game. Yeah. For me it's more like it's less of inspiration and it's more like I like to be entertained and check out for 20 minutes and then I Yeah. You know, move on. But there's like structures and parameters and how can you make sure that it actually only is 20 minutes and Yeah. You know, because like the challenge for people who are like on the edge with their, with their creativity or One of the theme I explore in the book is about being. A creative person and wanting to express your creativity more, but you go to this place of like, what's my thing? And like, how do I display my thing, like my particular thing. It's a very common spiral of doom. Yeah. For a lot of people. And I think that when you are coming from that place, it's hard to actually enjoy amazing videos like that because of the comparison. But also if you're thinking about making videos like that, it's really easy to then go into this place of like, how exactly does he do that? And do I need to think about how to do that? And how do you do this with the reel and how do you do this and this and this? And then you start doing them and they don't get that many views. You know what I mean? There's just like all of this like, oh yeah. That's why I call it the spiral of doom, because that's basical. It really is

Jason Frazell: 36:00

basically what it, yeah, exactly. I don't have a producer, don't have a video editor. Oh, he must learn this himself. Well, maybe he didn't. Maybe he has somebody, his sister's doing it. Like, and then you compare like all the ways that they can do these things and you can't versus just like, what do you wanna do? Totally. But what would be your thing? Your true voice, like you

Laura Westman: 36:16

said. Yeah. And like conversely just to. Play over in your corner a little bit more. There is really something to be said for like, if you look at your favorite creators, part of what draws us to them is because their voice is front and center. Yeah. Like that guy whose name escapes me for some reason, which is ridiculous because I literally look at his stuff every day. I know when I'm seeing a video from him that it is going to be. Engaging and hilarious. Yeah. And like there's always gonna be a couple moments where I'm like, oh, wow. You know, like, yeah. Cool, cool. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's this innate hymn ness That's right. Infused into what he produces. True voice. Exactly. So that's why I think that's so important. It's not about performing your true voice, it's about being able to make things that are your true voice and that being meaningful to you.

Jason Frazell: 37:07

Yeah. Laura. We're gonna wrap up here in a few minutes. Before we do that, what, any last kinda like thoughts or things that you think the audience need to know, you want them to know? Just any, you know, open thing here, and then we're gonna talk about where the book is and all that good stuff. Because we wouldn't want you on here without having people go and then get the book. Of course. But like what? Yeah. What else would you want people to know about either you or the book before we wrap up for

Laura Westman: 37:33

today? Well, thank you so much. Yeah. I want people to know this book was designed to be used and implemented, and then a friendly thing you can return to over and over and over. So I want you to think about the parts of you that might just be like waiting in the wings to be reactivated after just spending a little bit of time either listening to this or going through the book. I also think that I didn't realize it until the book was complete, but I realized that this book is really a blueprint about getting back to creative joy. Mm-hmm. Which no matter what industry you're in or what type of creativity you grew up doing, I think is the thing that we all are really. Longing for in the first place. So that's really what this is about, is clearing out the clutter in the way of that. And I think that many of the goals that we set in adult life are really because we wanna get back to something like that, like some sense of creative freedom or fun or joy or self-acceptance or something. So that's what this is really for and that's what it's about. Yeah. And I hope you have a great time. Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 38:50

Thanks, Laura. How can people connect with you first and then we'll talk about the book? So how can people connect with you?

Laura Westman: 38:56

Well, you can find me on Instagram at Westy Graham because that was the Instagram handle I picked back in 2012 when we were all putting Graham at the end of our, but, and, and by the way,

Jason Frazell: 39:08

this is not. A dog's page. It's actually Laura's page. No, it's not. We it, although that would be cute

Laura Westman: 39:13

too. It would be super cute. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm linkedin.com/slash laura westman. And you can find my podcast with Bay is west of Wonderland podcast. We are on Instagram at west of Wonderland podcast. Or you can listen to us on any platform where you like to get your podcasts. You can also purchase the book. It's available on Amazon for Kindle and paperback. And maybe by the time you're listening to it, you can buy it directly from me signed, but probably not. I'm working on that end of the operation.

Jason Frazell: 39:44

Yeah. Yeah. Th this is where the creativity dies and the, and the logistics handles is like, I know the logistics of shipping out books is like, and here we stop our creativity. Now we just go into like, how the heck do I make this all

Laura Westman: 39:57

work? I know totally. Well, my amazing assistant Kelly, is like, she's working on the book page and once all that is set up, it'll be actually pretty easy to do. But yeah, I think I'll just send y'all right to Amazon. Yeah. And you can have your own. Beautiful copy. It looks exactly like this, isn't it lovely? Yeah. It's

Jason Frazell: 40:13

beautiful purple. I love it. It's actually my new brand colors pretty much. I don't have orange, but I have like light blue, dark blue and purple, which are some of my favorite colors. Oh, that's cool. It's beautiful. It's, it's thin. It's a great read, Laura. A as you know, like as people listening know, I know Laura, Laura is an amazing creative person who's also good at getting stuff done and everything in between. Well, what's so interesting about writing a book is you have to be creative, but you also have to get something done Uhhuh, because it takes discipline, whether it's 65 pages or 500 pages. I interviewed somebody yesterday who has a much longer book, and I asked him the same questions, when did you know you need to write this? And he also had the same thing as like, it came to me like a songwriter. It came to me. I knew I had to do it, but his was longer. He is like, and it sucks writing a book sometimes. Mm-hmm. Really sucks. Mm-hmm. So you're like, is anybody gonna read it? Is anybody gonna like it? I don't have anything to say today. Am I ever gonna not have writer's block again, but, you know, pound it out there. Totally.

Laura Westman: 41:06

Totally. I mean, this one was to be clear, I have other writing projects that are just for fun. And those are the ones that are a little bit dramatic and up and down and, yeah. Challenging, you know? But this one came together very quickly because I, I knew the tool that it needed to be. Yeah. And that it would be so, but I, I super understand that. I mean, we're not even talking about my fan fiction that is 40% done and lingering.

Jason Frazell: 41:34

Would you like to make a coaching declaration here of live on a podcast? No, I'm kidding. You don't need to do that. Nah. This is the,

Laura Westman: 41:39

you're like, it's just, it, it's, that's one of the spaces where like making a declaration would kill the Yeah. Vulnerability of it. Totally. Like it just totally needs to Yeah. Move at its own pace. Oh, yeah.

Jason Frazell: 41:52

Since you mentioned it, to wrap up here, What kind of, can you share the wor, the universe, the fan fiction lives in? Oh

Laura Westman: 42:00

yes. It's the wizarding world. It's Harry Potter. Mm.

Jason Frazell: 42:02

I'm not shocked to hear

Laura Westman: 42:03

this. Of course you're not. I am. Because I never thought I would do anything like that. But our good friend Michelle Aiken Yeah. Is like a Harry Potter fan fiction. Fied

Jason Frazell: 42:15

and she write some interesting Harry Potter fan fiction's my understanding, like, and she does, I'll, I'll leave interesting to the, to the imagination of people,

Laura Westman: 42:24

the interpretation of people. Yeah. Yeah. I read her story. Draco Malfoy Gets a Life Coach, and two things struck me. Number one, how. Effortlessly. She seemed to write the world Draco Malfoy, which is very interesting to me. Yeah. Secondly, she wrote herself in the story as Draco's coach. Yeah. And Draco goes through a very intense transformation. Yes. And it was really moving. I was like, this is so cool. So after I read it, I was Frankly, the way that this whole thing even got started was I told Michelle that if she ever wanted to write a fan fiction about a little slitherin American transfer student in a love triangle with two of the marauders that I would read the heck out of that wink, wink, wink. And we talked about it and she asked some character development questions and then she was like, I think you should just write it. And I was like, that's so stupid. But I did. And it's actually been really. Wonderful to write.

Jason Frazell: 43:22

We'll have you back on to talk about it

Laura Westman: 43:24

or not. We never have to talk about it. We're

Jason Frazell: 43:25

never aware. You're like, you're like, Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. This, this is, this stays between a trusted thing. That's

Laura Westman: 43:32

fine. I know. The thing that's been really fun though is my main character is Remus Lupin, who is the werewolf. Sure. And I didn't realize, but werewolf. For him is very similar to my autoimmune disease and so it's actually been really wonderful. I've been writing a lot about his relationship with his disease and his friends and his relationship with the moon. Mm-hmm. And it's been really healing for me to do.

Jason Frazell: 43:59

That's so cool. Yeah. Congratulations. Now I need to have Michelle come on here and we need to talk about some, I haven't had Michelle on quite yet, but we talked about it, so yeah, you got Laura the best. Yeah, seriously, huge. Congratulations. It's so, so cool to see good people putting out good stuff in the world, making a difference for, for lots of people out there. And just keep doing what you're doing and we'll have you back on soon to talk about your next project that you're willing to share with us. Great. I can't wait. Thank you. All right. Thanks so much, Laura. Have a good one. Bye.