Matt Gerlach - Helping entrepreneurs create unapologetically abundant lives

Jason and Matt go deep on how Matt turned his battle with trauma into a story of triumph. From confronting childhood adversities to navigating the complexities of mental health in entrepreneurship, Matt shares his transformative journey, offering invaluable insights into resilience, growth, and the power of vulnerability.

Key Takeaways:

1. Transforming trauma into entrepreneurial success.
2. The importance of setting boundaries for personal and professional growth.
3. Insights into the intersection of mental health and entrepreneurship.
4. The role of vulnerability in fostering genuine connections and business success.
5. Strategies for overcoming adversity and embracing growth and change.

Highlighted Quotes:

• "Trauma was the toughest business challenge I ever faced."
• "Entrepreneurship wasn't just about business; it was about personal healing."
• "My business grew as I learned to set boundaries and honor my needs."

Matt’s a highly accomplished entrepreneur and author who’s triumphed over adversity, emerging as an expert in personal transformation. He believes everyone possesses wisdom within themselves and empowers his clients to access it and overcome the obstacles that hinder their dreams from becoming reality. Matt’s consulting business grosses $1M in annual revenue, and he now leads The Abundance Activation Mastermind, which takes entrepreneurs through his signature program to total fulfillment and extreme emotional and financial abundance.

http://linkedin.com/in/matt-gerlach/
http://facebook.com/mattggerlach
http://instagram.com/iammattgerlach

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Transcript

Jason Frazell: 0:11

Hey everybody, my guest on the show today is the amazing Matt Gerlach. Matt is an advocate. He's an author, he is a facilitator amongst a variety of other things, and I would say maybe a recovering business owner in some ways. We'll, we'll talk about that Matt today. Matt, I'm so glad you're here. Just to give the audience a little bit of per context, Matt and I got connected. We had a really awesome conversation last week. We are connected through a circle where we know some people in common and I said, I gotta have you on. So Matt, I'm so glad, so glad you're here with us today.

Matt Gerlach: 0:43

Glad I'm here as well. Thanks, Jason.

Jason Frazell: 0:45

Excellent. So Matt, where are you joining us from?

Matt Gerlach: 0:47

I'm in Los Angeles.

Jason Frazell: 0:49

In Los Angeles. I'm over here in New York. So I was just talking on another podcast about how cool it is that you can interview people from around the world or across the country. We're here. So yeah, your time. It's just having lunchtime. We're wrapping up the day over here in the East Coast. At least I am soon. So Matt, Let's first of all, just get to know you a little bit. What would you like the audience to know about you?

Matt Gerlach: 1:12

To kick off here. Sure. All right. Well, so I am an entrepreneur. I started a business about seven years ago. It's a consulting services business and boy, did I. Offer my services.

Jason Frazell: 1:29

That's very leading. I cannot wait to hear where we're going to that.

Matt Gerlach: 1:32

When, when I started this business, I was you know, it's a, I mean, it's an honest business, good people around me. It's actually in baby products. So I help manufacturers and brands with their business growth and wholesale management and growth strategy, ongoing. and service providing. And when I started this business, I was hit right smack dab with a bus of needing to deal with my trauma and it ended itself right, right when I started the business, I was not able to set boundaries. I was not able to say no, choosing the right clients. What does that? You just say yes to everything that comes your way. And it was really driven by this place of scarcity. When I look back at like my whole life, like I've been a saver my whole life. I never really like made money until I started this business. I mean, I made good money, but like no better than average. And so like I only, you know, I came from a pretty blue collar family, hardworking family. I didn't really know that there was people out in the world that made. Good money. I thought you know, well, I moved to New York as well So in 2010 I moved there and I thought rich business made a hundred thousand dollars doctors and lawyers made two hundred thousand dollars

Jason Frazell: 2:47

Yeah And then you sit at the bar or restaurant and hear people talking about money on the East Coast and you go That's a lot of money. That was my experience too is moving to New York. I think we talked about that last

Matt Gerlach: 2:55

week. Yeah. And so, you know I never really like, I mean, I just, you know, you needed more money. You just worked more. You worked harder throughout high school. I worked, you know, I mean, honestly, 35, 40 hours a week through almost all of high school and college. I was working out hospital 16 and 24 hour shifts on the weekends during college falling asleep while driving. I mean, like, I mean, it was just insane. And I did this because I mean, I, I mean, I was just on my own, you know, I have my family. I think that there was a mix between you know, they saved a lot of their money. There was not a lot of enjoying today. And also, I think that a lot of it was like they struggled and they thought it would be helpful for me to struggle. And yeah, I've completely changed my because of this, you know, I, I, I definitely don't have a lot of I'm a lot of regrets. I mean, I don't wish things were that different than they were. I've grown some very thick skin. I absolutely believe that, that you know, that people that have been through hard things are the people that are changing the world. And I'm grateful for that. I think the only thing that I really would say it's that I wish there was a little more help because at the end of the day I just turned on myself and that wasn't a lesson that I. That was the hardest lesson just turning on myself and never being okay with myself because yeah, I Always thought that I wasn't good enough.

Jason Frazell: 4:17

Yeah, so when we talk you were talking about the Childhood trauma and then moving into an entrepreneurial role You're and I relate to a lot of your story. I grew up in a also pretty very middle class And I worked a lot. I always just like, I liked to make money and I had no concept of a hundred thousand, 200, 000. I just wanted to make that. But I also worked a lot in high school. I worked a lot in college and I think I derived a lot of my value from that of the idea of being a quote unquote hard worker. I'm curious for you, as we talk about bringing the trauma into your work as an entrepreneur, and we're going to talk later about how you now work with people doing that, like that's something that you have a passion for, and it's kind of like what you're here to do now on this planet. Do you remember the moment where you became present to this? Because I would assert. It's so easy to for many people never to realize that's what's actually going on like the moment where you go Oh my

Matt Gerlach: 5:20

god I think things have to get bad enough and I think you know I said this a couple years ago and it was with my coach and she was like well Like this is really profound a lot of people I think just skate north of rock bottom and they don't quite get there It's just it's you know, good I and I'm grateful that I got there, you know, and my rock bottom was not was not everyone's rock bottom wasn't horrible. But yeah, so I mean, driving this business to success, the big part of this was like, I couldn't set boundaries. And I learned that I was very intimidated by men, men in power. And because growing up, that was always there was never any sort of like healthy disagreements. It was always like, a man in power was very scary for me. So yeah. I couldn't set boundaries. I couldn't say no. And I was just driving myself crazy because I was working around the clock, trying to just, I mean, I, I mean, I had five clients, I think maybe even six at the peak and I just treated them all like it was my own business and like, I was going to be the one filing for bankruptcy if the businesses went under. And like, really what I offered my clients at the beginning was like, I was this scrappy guy. That came in and treated these businesses like it was my own and I'm like, okay, you give me lemons I'm gonna take it into lemonade and sell this stuff And I did. And so yeah, so when my partner and I moved from New York to L. A. He wanted to move, I, I didn't want to, but, you know, in relationship to eventually compromise, so we did. Yeah. Yep. The first night, I about four hours after we landed at LAX, we were at our apartment unpacking. And I started to feel dizzy, and I checked my blood pressure. I'd been diagnosed with high blood pressure a few months prior to all this. And my blood pressure was like 190 over 110. Wow. Yeah. And I called my doctor. And he was like, you gotta go to the hospital. I had chest pain. And so I spent my first night in L. A. in the hospital. Checked into the hospital. Your first night. Wow. Yeah. And then After that, I mean, I, you know, I knew that I had to do something. So I was following up with tons of doctors and still like no one really, this whole like idea of mental health debilitating somebody was like, I can't even put it into words. Like it just, it was such a foreign concept. Like emotional health was never really anything that like, I had no exposure to that being any reason to to slow down. I mean, emotional health, like unless your leg is falling off, you better be, you know, going to work. And so it took like, it took like nine months probably for me to really let that sink in. And I've been in therapy for, I mean, 10 years. I don't know what we were talking about because certainly I wasn't, you know, wasn't resonating that that emotional hardship could, you know, could get to where I got.

Jason Frazell: 8:01

Matt, if I could, if I could give you something here. So to interject with the, what was I doing there? I've heard this described as you're running your own game inside of therapy. Like you were talking about the, like the problem of the day or maybe the problem of the week, but just not getting there. And my guess is if you were with a therapist for 10 years, you liked them and thought they were good. You were not allowing yourself to get there. It wasn't anything they could do. It's like, but I love, I love the idea of like, yeah, but you're running a game on your therapist, running a game on your coach because you're actually running a game on yourself is what you're doing.

Matt Gerlach: 8:34

Yeah, thank you for that. And I'm kind of like, I mean, I wish I could read these journals because I've I've been journaling like for, you know, this whole process and I wish I could faster. It's like my own handwriting. It's chicken scratch, but I do read them, you know, every, I spent maybe an hour or two a week. And right now I'm at the journal where I'm reading a lot about this stuff. And it's like, it's exactly what you said. Like, you know, I'm kind of telling the story that I want to. I mean, the story that I feel safe and I'm really overwhelmed. I got to make dinner tonight or something like that. You know, when it's like the reality still, I mean, I've been, this has been 10 years in the mix and I would say it's really only been maybe the past year or so that I really understood that all of this, like. All of this, all of this overwhelm, all of this feeling of inadequacy, this never allowing myself to be anything but perfect, it was all trauma. And it wasn't, it was the only thing in life I couldn't figure out. Like if you were to say, Hey Matt, like, you know you're doing this wrong. Like, oh yeah, that makes sense. And it was just like, everyone's like, you're so hard on yourself. And I'm like, okay, anyways, don't know what to do with that at all. You're like, okay,

Jason Frazell: 9:38

thanks for

Matt Gerlach: 9:39

that. Thanks for the idea. Yeah. And yeah, so, I mean, I, you know, like I. Just to kind of wrap that up real quick, like I I started having panic attacks while driving and that was really what debilitated me

Jason Frazell: 9:49

because I got to the place. Like a real, like a physical panic attack, like shortness of, like the actual physiological reaction?

Matt Gerlach: 9:55

Yeah, I mean, I had no idea what was going on. I thought I, I had no idea that mental emotional health could have made somebody feel as bad as I did. So I was just convinced I was dying. I mean, I literally would have bet a million dollars at 35 years old that I wouldn't have lived to see I'm 40. I thought I had it. Rumor that I had lung cancer or whatever it might be and so when this happened, I just started chasing I was literally in the doctor's office, you know every other day for weeks at a time Like you've got to find what's wrong with me and in reality i'm writing a book I think this will be the second book kind of a little bit more awareness of this because i'm a lot There's a lot of humility about it now, but like I don't think I would have been debilitated from these, from driving the way that I was had I known it was a panic attack and just been able to process that, but I thought I was dying and that I was gonna, I could visualize myself just killing a bunch of people. Matt, I have

Jason Frazell: 10:50

a question for you. We've talked about the business and like your business life. I'm really curious how this The trauma and the lack of batteries. How did that show up in your relationship? And what's been the effect for you and your partner as you've been working on this? Because I say this because I know that this is not an easy thing for a partner to be with. And I'm talking about the, Oh, wait a second. All the things that I used to have my partner be able to just do for me, or like with no pushback, suddenly there's like more of a, like they're standing for themselves. That's not necessarily easy for the people in our lives to, to handle or they don't like it. And I'm speaking for myself. I don't. Always liking when people that are in my life are like, Oh, wait, that's about, but that boundary wasn't there. And it was so much easier when you're not, when you didn't have that boundary. So how, how have you two work that worked on that? Because I find that just a really, can be a really

Matt Gerlach: 11:43

stressful thing. You know, I'm really happy you asked that question. I've never really been asked that or been given this chance to reflect on it. And I want to be careful not to like over, over embellish, you know, like, but. It wasn't horrible at all. You know, I mean, I think that I I'm very lucky that I found a supportive partner. I think that he has, you know, his, I don't want to say baggage, but you know, he has his like you know, he's probably a little more of a, I'm just kind of saying, I mean, he might be a little more of a people pleaser. He might be a little more compassionate and care about people than somebody might. Like if I would have had a jerk as a partner, this, we probably wouldn't be together. But I think he really loves me and he really, and he really. I mean, it was really hard, like for me, I mean, I think it was so much torture and so much pain and like, there was a few, I've just kind of started talking about this the past couple of weeks, but there was a few times where like, I got so, and this is, you know, this is only, you know, five years ago or so, six years ago, where I would get so hard on myself that I would like literally turn inward. And there was, there was like a couple of times when I had to say like, I'm afraid I'm going to hurt myself. And I didn't. And you said that, you just said

Jason Frazell: 12:55

that to yourself or you said it out loud to somebody else?

Matt Gerlach: 12:58

I told him that. Oh wow. It was like when I was processing all of this grief and it was like, I remember it was like, it was like almost like a cleansing. Like it was, because I never really had felt like I never had that level of clarity to it, and Like, it was like, like, it was like him and I had a disagreement, And like, we don't really, we've had a couple of like, fights, but like, In reality, there's been, it's just mainly pretty healthy disagreements, you know, And it's like, I was, like I think like this disagreement, like it was like, No one was wrong, it was just a disagreement. Like, I was growing and learning that I wasn't wrong. So, like, I felt like I was, like, I, and I wasn't used to not being wrong. So, I, I was, like, turning on myself, like, feeling, like, it, I mean, it almost hurt worse to, to not take the blame. And to just, like, be, like, This is nobody's fault right now, or I mean, sometimes it might have been his fault more than it was mine, you know, it I just was so used to always having it be my fault. So he really, he, he, I mean, I mean, I would say that if anything, it was more difficult, probably for him to watch me really go through the healing process of trauma than it was for me to put boundaries up in our relationship. Yeah, yeah. Like, it took me a while to put a lot of boundaries, and there weren't, like, dramatic boundaries to, to, to put up. I mean, I think that, like, really, like, it was things like, you know, It was really, I mean, this is like, really, I don't want to say embarrassing because vulnerability is my superpower. I'm fine with this, but this is deep, you know, like we're talking when it's like, you know, like I'm having a birthday party, who do I invite? What do I do? Like, I couldn't make decisions like that for myself very easily. And like. So, it was more like having to work through those kinds of things than it was me saying you are not doing this anymore. Like, I think we have a pretty, pretty contemporary relationship. We Yeah. It's not a lie.

Jason Frazell: 15:08

You're not doing Yeah, that's good. I mean, it's good that you got there. I'm also really curious about When you say turning on yourself, I'd love if you would expand upon that for us, like what was that, if people didn't know what that meant, what do you mean by that, and what was that experience like for you, like on the inside?

Matt Gerlach: 15:29

Oh, it was horrible. Turning on myself, what does that mean? It means like, not, not having compassion for myself at all, like when there was something going on. I'd rather, I would rather hurt than have the other person hurt. I would rather be the one in pain than have somebody else hurt. Even if they did something to deserve, I don't want to say the word deserve, but if somebody did something wrong, like it's always easier for me. To be the one suffering, to be the one blaming, rather than to make that person grow or to make them be accountable for what they did. So like, in situations where like, me and you have a fight, Jason, and it's like, you know, you're wrong. Like, I don't want to use the word wrong, but you're, you've done more to precipitate the fight than I have. And rather than deal with your discomfort, maybe you yelling, maybe you walking out the door, whatever it might be, I'd rather just be the person to absorb that all, because it's easier. That's what I'm used to. It was easier to do that than it is to like experience someone abandoning me, I guess, when it comes down to it. Yeah. That's what I hear.

Jason Frazell: 16:38

I was just listening to another podcast of somebody who was interviewed on a it's a more of a therapist podcast where she actually got therapy about this anonymously and the output of that for her was one same thing easier easier to take on the pain for herself or abandon herself so that she felt connected and comforted and loved by by others and she was left with nothing for herself at the end of the day. And, like you said, I, I really like what you said about skating just above rock, just about skating, just above rock bottom. Right. It's what you said. Your coach is right. That's a, that's a brat. I am going to steal that. Whoever your coach is mad. I'm going to steal that. That it's so true. And I, I've been there too. So I'm not saying I'm perfect or here, like where you're just operating almost purely from automatic is how I would call that. And as somebody who's a smart person, who's done good work, you haven't yet a successful business and you're, you're working on successful business now, like there are things you just know how to do. But that's all you're able to do, right? It's not a mindful thing. You're not present. It's like, you're just operating on top of like, what's the automatic thing? Because there's a lot of automatic things we all know how to do that really serve us in some ways. So going back to going back to something I asked before, I'm curious, was there a moment for you? Or was this something that over was like the LA, you know, LA going to the hospital, were you present? Is when it happened that like, this is some, a sign that something's seriously wrong? Or was there something more that had to happen? Cause I know, I mean, you probably know people like this too. I certainly do. They'll have a big event like that and they'll be like, Ah, I got it fixed and they're right back to the same old, same old. And then they hit something else again.

Matt Gerlach: 18:33

I definitely wasn't right back to the same old, same old. I mean, I was in doctor's offices all the time and I was freaking out. I mean, I, you know, like I was in, you know, I was checking my blood pressure at home and you know, there was probably a dozen or more times that I would just call my cardiologist and think I have to come see you, my blood pressure was high. And just, so I was really chasing down problems. And then finally it was this like big staunch neurologist who was like such a jerk and he, and he was the one that like finally said, he's like. I don't want to ever see you again, you know, don't come back here. What you're dealing with is plain old anxiety. You don't need me, you know? And so he, he, he made me clear that what I was going through was anxiety. And that I think opened the that really opened the floodgates to like, like a medical doctor had really said that. I was in yoga teacher training at the same time as well. So I mean, I was really pursuing the holistic path. I don't know where I really. Got this holistic bone in my body, but I'm very much. I mean, you know, like I've been meditating for years. That was part of the process. Journaling yoga, teacher training, the teacher I had was just highly philosophical, so that made a lot of sense to me and just being like. Like in this yoga teacher training, like, you know, you're in a room with 10, 12 people, maybe more than that, depending who you're with. And it was really the first time that like people that I was with people that were really sharing emotions like this, that, that I, I mean, I guess like I always thought that there had to be something bigger. Like I had to have something horrific happen to, I mean, to feel any emotional pain and being a man also. I mean, that was a big part of my narrative, you know, men aren't supposed to have any problems like this. So this was all like leading up to my, my partner and I were in couples therapy and we had like this really good couples therapist who was like really aggressive and I'm not like with us, but like would kind of just tell us how it was and it was good because my partner,

Jason Frazell: 20:29

As opposed to like, so Matt, how do you feel about that? You're like, listen, I'm hearing that this is bullshit. There's a lot of bullshit

Matt Gerlach: 20:34

going on. Yeah. So she really, like, I started to like, go from this like therapy to like, I needed people to validate, like, what is going on, you know, tell me what, like, like what you're seeing. And I started to see that. And then it was in a couples therapy session with her where we realized. The three of us realized that I was not able to ask for what I needed because I was ashamed of my needs. And that was like, you know, we said earlier that like, I was like, I was very open to hearing that story and to hearing that be where things were at. And so that was probably the moment where I was like, you know, I hadn't been able to drive on the freeway for, you know, a year, year and a half by that point. My life was just completely like in LA. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was Ubering all around. Holy shit. Yeah, I mean, I was traveling the world. I was on airplanes all the time for my business. So like, I would laugh. I'd be like, I just can't believe that I could, you know, leave my house and Uber and, you know, eight hours later be getting to my hotel in Manhattan and like, yeah, it was normal. I'm not driving at all, you know, and just like how I was able in Japan, you know, all over the world, like doing this, like conducting life as normal. And it was easier to be anywhere than it was to be at home driving to the grocery store. Sorry,

Jason Frazell: 21:54

I have a question about something that just struck me. It happened the first day you got to California. As somebody who has also lived in New York for a long time. One thing that I've realized for myself is that New York is an easy place to mask because it's so People and things to do and there's so entertaining and there's so many I don't like to call them Just I mean they're distractions for maybe like focusing inward I just find it arguably the best place in the world to focus externally because it's just overload all the time I'm curious if there was something about the move itself or leaving or mentally leaving the New York space that had you all, that also triggered something for you, if you, if you'd ever, I don't know if you've worked through that or if you've ever thought about it, but I know for me personally. I've certainly felt that it's a great place to be distracted from what's actually

Matt Gerlach: 22:55

going on. I would call it like the adult playground. I mean, it really, it is. Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 23:00

Yeah. You know, it's like the adult playground. It's as I think of it as like, Vegas is great for a few days. And most people I know go to like Vegas for a few days and they're like, I got to get out of here. There's people that never want to leave New York, like never leave Manhattan. They're like, this is just amazing. And I'm not even talking about partying. I'm just talking about all the stuff to do that's, it's got everything you could ever want. So I'm, I'm curious if that was something that. That you, your brain's like, and you live in LA, which is also an amazing place with never ending things to do, but there's more space and more driving. And yeah, it's not the same as New York, obviously. What, do you think there's anything about the geographic change that That created something for you?

Matt Gerlach: 23:39

There was two things about the move. And I think, yeah, I mean, in New York, like, you know, like, you really, I mean, if, I mean, if you want your career to happen and you're driven in New York, I mean, you can, the sky is the absolute limit, you know? Absolutely. It's not going to happen from sitting at your desk looking pretty, I mean, but if you can finagle your way through back doors and get, get yourself, you know, at the right table, you'll make, you can do anything you want there. And with that, work hard, play hard culture. I mean, I worked at, I worked. I mean, I'd worked in, you know, entrepreneurial companies my whole time there. We celebrated. We had a lot of fun. There was always alcohol. I, you know, I, a big part of my story has been I would call it numbing a lot of this with alcohol. And around the time that I was moving back to Los Angeles, like, you know, I had high blood pressure. That was part of it. I mean, I, my body was telling me it was time to stop. I smoke cigarettes all the time, you know, I mean, it was, Life was really, I mean, I was very hard on my body and a part of my business success was that I was always the life of the party. I never I could always hold my alcohol pretty well. So like I could go from happy hour to happy hour to dinner, to do all the entertaining and everything that needed to be done to make everyone like it. Yeah, all of that coming to an end, the masking of everything. And then I was coming back to the town that I'm from, you know, my, my I grew up in a suburb of Pasadena and what was waiting for me was a lot of childhood trauma that I never had processed. You know, I mean, there was a lot that happened at home that I really wish would not have been the case. And I had a very hard time at school. I was completely abandoned. And With no friends, like not even a friend's birthday party for three years. And I don't, I don't know. It was horrible. And I Even that in and of itself, you know, I mean, no one, no one really I don't remember any adult like ever, ever really noticing that was going on and the story that I remember would be that I hid that because I was just too ashamed and embarrassed that if adults found out then I mean, I but yeah, I mean I was coming home to I was coming home to a situation that I had left, you know, and felt really bad

Jason Frazell: 25:45

Yeah. So Matt, let's, let's take a pivot here into what's up with you today. This is obviously what you're describing is a lifelong journey, lifelong journey. I'm sure there's still times where you go, Oh my God, you see, I am speaking for me. There's still times. And I've done, I've done a lot of work. I don't have a lot of the same things you do, but I have my own stuff, right? We all do. Where there's certain days where I'm like, Oh, right back at my old thing. There it is. There's the thing. So I'm sure I'm guessing that happens for you, but what are you up to now? As you've, you know, done that work, therapy, coaching, moving, having to look at these things. What's your passion now and what are you working on?

Matt Gerlach: 26:27

I love learning. I love growing. Growth would be my number one value in life. So I mean, I, I read, you know, a book a week. Normally I'm listening to podcasts and engaging in conversations any way I can to learn. And I love it. And I started writing a book about three years ago. And it's a memoir of my life, which has pretty much been like the nail in the coffin of my healing journey. I hired a writing coach in 2020, and that was what really, like, putting this on paper and really Like, it was more vulnerable than therapy. Like, I, you know, I had Sure. Share it with somebody. Here's what I wrote this week. Not

Jason Frazell: 27:05

just somebody, Matt. You're writing a book. There will probably be a lot of people who will You'll be sharing this with people and people you never, you will never meet which is amazing.

Matt Gerlach: 27:14

That's the plan. I mean, that's the plan. Writing a book is a lot. I mean, I'm enjoying it very much. Yeah. As I've like Writing this book. It's really it's it's it's been healing in a way that I had never expected to be healed and I've learned forgiveness. I've gone through this whole thing. I mean I don't have any animosity anymore I mean, it's crazy Like I'm in this writing group right now and I'm writing this essay and then at the end of it I said I no longer feel anxiety or depression Also knowing that life isn't linear and things will happen. They said they were like this is not believable And I really, you know, contemplated that for a moment and I'm like, true, you know, true, but also I feel that way and I think it's like I felt so horrible for so long that it feels like I have no anxiety or depression anymore. And I want to help people with this. You know, I've I've been an entrepreneur for with my own business for the past seven years. And then I've been an entrepreneur. I've been working for entrepreneurs for the past almost 15 and I have seen entrepreneurship be. So liberating, it offers you the freedom to create a life that you want. And I've made a lot of money. I have had a couple of years over the past couple of years. I've made over a million dollars a year. With my own consulting business and I want to help other entrepreneurs, other people become entrepreneurs. So I am leaning heavily into that through a coaching business. I started about six months ago. I, the more that I'm, the more that I'm. Really diving into this. I'm feeling myself called to to, to trauma work, to really helping people not probably with the healing of trauma per se. I don't see myself going back to school for something like that. But I think that I think where people get stuck with trauma is they don't know. What they went through was trauma. I remember if I can share a small story about this. Oh, of course, I Remember I was I had had lunch with a family member. This was to her, you know, this is maybe I don't know four years Ago, we'll say and I took the dog for a walk after dinner or lunch Which which we were there for hours and I was walking across the street and a question popped into my mind I had thought about this Hundreds of times I had thought like, and I hate to be I'm so graphic, but like, I'd always kind of thought like one of the worst dramas would be a woman getting raped. So that was kind of like my, my my, like the, like the big T trauma that I latched onto. And I was thinking like, why would a woman? Not say that she has been I mean, I'm an abuse Why wouldn't she be able to say that we've heard, you know millions of stories about people that don't yeah and I thought about this like hundreds thousands of times and then all of a sudden I remember exactly where I was at making that step and I was like They don't realize they've been abused and that's, that's the story, you know, I mean, that's the help that people need. There's a lot of help out there for people that realize that, but it's very hard to leave a relationship. It's hard to acknowledge that people who love you also can do things that they shouldn't do to you. And that's one of the things like in yoga, we were taught there's a much more eloquent way to say this, but my yoga teacher said this it's both life is so much of both like you can be loved and be abused. You could be loved. You could be hated. I mean, it goes on like, and I think that that offers a lot of freedom because you're able to, as the victim or the person that's been abused, you're able to find a path forward with that. But also like. There's a forgiveness with that too, like no one's perfect, you know, and I think that so much of the healing or the processing of trauma is at the start of it, which is the, which is something I, I consider myself quite adept in it is it's the acknowledging of it, the learning of it and the accepting that like there is a path to have that person still in your life, perhaps, but for You need to be willing to put the boundary up and be willing to, in some cases, that's going to need to be incriminated for what they did. And then at the end, apologies rarely come. And you know, and I'm fine with that. I mean, it's, you know, like And there's so much help out there for that as well, too. I'm, I'm, I'm reading Marianne Williamson. Someone just brought her to me and I'm reading her book. Forget the name of it, but it's the most popular one. And last night was, and it's like, yeah, it's just, what is, I said to myself, like they knew they know not what they do. Like they don't know what they're doing. And that's

Jason Frazell: 31:53

what, I mean, that's, Jesus said that in the Bible as he was being crucified and that's a pretty biblical,

Matt Gerlach: 31:58

they know not what they do. Forget them.

Jason Frazell: 32:00

Yeah. Forget them. They know not what they do. Right. Yep. Yeah, man, I, I was, this is so. You know, I was just I was telling you this a couple hours ago. I was interviewing my friend, Dr. Eugene K. Choi, who's been on the podcast a few times also in LA. So we got a theme here just randomly happened that way. And one of his, he's a, he he's a coach. He really focuses on neuroscience. So he takes a really. He's a pharmacist, which is why he's a doctor. He takes a really scientific approach, and we were talking a lot about your executive state and your survival state, and you said something there that came up in our conversation as well, is that in survival state, our brain really hates the cognitive dissonance of You know what, Matt? It's possible that you did some bad things, but you're still lovable, or it's possible, like, our brain in its most simple state hates that because it doesn't know what to do with it at a very base level, which is also what makes us as humans unique than almost, I think, every other animal on the planet, is the idea that both of these things can be completely true, and what do we do with that? And in our executive state, we go critical thinking, empathy, connection, in our survival state, Our brain goes, well, that those both can't be true. You're either a, you're a fucking asshole or you're lovable, but there's no way you're both in a relationship or, and I'm sure you felt that way. Like, I know I feel that way. And like, just the idea that our brain loves the black and white, the us versus them, the either or context, because it's so much more simple. And at the end of the day, Eugene is like, and it, our brain burns less calories processing it, which is what our brain is trained to do or was trained to do a long time ago. And now we just happen to be evolved in some ways. And in other ways, we're not at

Matt Gerlach: 33:43

all. You know, I mean, shame is a part of my story. I mean, it's a huge part of a lot of stories. And yeah, I really started down this healing journey. I mean, I, I found a Brene Brown book, you know, I'm a woman friend of mine, recommended her and I, and I, and I just read those journals for that time. And I'm looking at this and I'm like, this is when it all started making sense. Like what I'm struggling with is that I have so much shame and I was forgive other people before I forgave myself. I think the forgiveness of myself has just come recently. Good. Or, but yeah, we all have shame and that's all, I mean, it's a horrible thing. I mean, no one wants to hurt anybody, but, and I

Jason Frazell: 34:23

think there's some, I think there are some people that may want to hurt other, there are certain people that probably want to hurt other people. That's all, well, it's all they know how to do, right? That's the only way they know how to assert power is through pain.

Matt Gerlach: 34:33

And like, I mean, I see this come up for me sometimes, like the other day I was talking to somebody and I said something that that they disagreed with and I'm, I'm still a little bit of a novice and having healthy disagreements here. So, like, I, you know, I'm a little careful and it was someone I really care about and like, what I noticed now is it's like, I have the opportunity when that happens, but I'm feeling like I want to not leave that open, like, like, I don't want to walk away and be like, oh, I don't want to deal with this. That's when I deal with it, and I said, you know, not, I'm sorry if I offended you so much, it was more, I'm sorry if what I said wasn't appropriate, or I'm sorry if what I said, like, I'm sorry if I approached this in a way that hurt you, like, I think it's nice to say, like, I'm sorry, what did I say, I'm sorry if I offended you, that's saying, well, I'm sorry if you're too sensitive, or I'm sorry if you're Like, I was genuinely sorry that in the presence of him, I said something that might have come out that might have hurt him. And I was very open. The topic was something he knew a lot more about than I did in the first place. So I, and he's like, no, it's fine. And then I said, I wanted to make sure. I really cared about the person and I wanted to make sure. Yeah. So we're all offered those opportunities. Like when you're at work and you have feelings, you're, you have that opportunity to say like, Hey, like I care about you in this relationship and I might be your boss, but I still don't need to throw my weight around.

Jason Frazell: 35:58

Yeah, man. I just had something there. It really struck a chord with me and through the coach training I went to, we call that owning your side of the street. And for me, for me as well, just speaking for myself, the dance between owning your side of the street without becoming a people pleaser is so Easy to go to the other side. Like, like, I mean, how it sounds like this is something you did. I'll do it. Oh, I'm so, I'm so sorry. I said that, but I'm actually not sorry. I said that what I'm sorry is that you made a feel a certain way. And what I hear is like just the elevation of the conversation where you get to be you and speak your truth, like own your truth, but also own that potentially had an impact on somebody is different than I'm sorry. I made you feel bad when I spoke my truth that I still truly believe it. Yeah. Which is. And what we're, what I, what the way I see this topic right now is what we're talking about is the overarching problem with humanity and the problem with politics in every country, especially America is like, we can actually disagree and still, and still say this person has good intentions most of the time. Yeah. I really appreciate it. So Matt, let's talk about, I have no doubt there are people listening here that go. I felt this way or I feel this way right now and I'm driven in my business or I'm driven in my life and I'm or personally at home. Where would you suggest people start? Because you said something really amazing that has really stuck with me since you said it. Once you're aware, there's a million resources, but a lot of people I would assert are either not aware or they are, they have an inkling. But they don't know what to do next. And I'm talking about the burnout, the shame, the feeling, you know, the, the things that you've described about how you've, how you feel and noticing about yourself, you know, as you're working with people, where would you recommend people start? Like what's something that people can do? Today or tomorrow,

Matt Gerlach: 38:05

I think that I mean, well, I really appreciate this question. I wish I had my journal in front of me. There was something I read this morning that like, I have like five steps. That was just like something I knew five years ago. That was just, so I'm going to try to like reiterate that. But, you know, it's like you go, you go with the path of least resistance, you know, like, I think it's like getting, and I want to say this effectively because it's really important. I think the hardest part of any sort of healing journey is the acknowledgement to yourself that there's something to heal. So, that's, that's the hardest thing and I don't think we get there on our own. Like, I don't think that anybody fully gets there on their own. They might, you know I'm a, I'm a huge reader. I don't watch as much TV or movies, but you can learn just as much in terms of people's lives and stories from that. I just happened to be watching a fried green tomatoes last night, you know, like, yeah. And it's just like, there's so many, there's millions of movies out there that are just like full and like when you're at that moment where something like that hits you where you're like, gosh, like, you know. This happened to me, it happened to her, and she got help, or she told her mom, and her mom, you know, came in and called the police, or, like, when these things happen, these are the moments to, like, actually do something, and whether that's writing something down, like, and saying, tomorrow I'm gonna call the therapist, it's, you gotta, like, you've got to, like, Start getting the message out of you and that might for some people just start with writing it down and it might start with Writing it down and burning it because you're too afraid to let somebody see it It might only into the bathroom mirror It might be if you're really really really lucky and brave you might talk to a friend or a family member about it Like, that is, that's, that's, it's gonna start changing when you start letting people in. And I think back to like, I was just writing about this this morning in my, in my book and it's like, how many times, like, I would tell a therapist or a friend something like, Hey, like this person did this to me. And then they would like, try to tell me like, Matt, like, that's not good. And I would backpedal and try to like defend that person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. No. The goal is that you need to get that feedback from other people. And generally I would say that I have talked to probably no less than a thousand people on, on my healing journey. I don't remember really any unhelpful or bad. Advice, like nobody really crawl back into a hole because you're an asshole.

Jason Frazell: 40:38

Yeah, nobody. Yeah.

Matt Gerlach: 40:41

People might have things in others, but like it really is just getting it out of you. And if it takes, I mean, it took me a couple of years of writing this down in journals before I really talked about things that I needed to talk about, you know, they say the best time to plant a tree was yesterday, but the second best time is, or the the best thing to plant a tree was 10 years ago. The second best time is today. So it's like, once you start getting this out of you and getting it on the paper, you look back at it, like you start noticing patterns, that is the key, you gotta just get it out of you and, you know, and I mean, the tall order is that you get a therapist or you tell your doctor or you tell someone who's actually trained in this and you're receptive to them and you're able to listen to them. And when they tell you, you are an abusive relationship or your boss is abusing you or he's crazy, like, I think back, I'm going through some career changes right now and changing up my consulting business, moving much more into my, my, my purpose driven work, super exciting. Yeah. Yeah. And I felt like so. I have been ready for this for a while, and as I'm really reflecting on the past several years of wanting to do this, nothing's really changed externally, it's been internally that I am brave enough to do it, like we all journey of becoming brave and confident and building the support network up, you know, you can't. Like, I'm not going to say this is easy, but it's just getting it out of you and letting other people in and reading, listening to podcasts, immersing yourself in stories of people that have been where you're at, that have seen the other side. I'm a firm believer that like nothing that any of us are dealing with is something unique. Like we have, there's millions of people. I'm a big stoicism fan. Like these people. Yep. Everything you need to know is in, I mean, is in those books of the stoicism, you know? So get it out of you and just continue to learn and become brave and listen to other people's stories until you're brave enough to really make a move. Oh. I don't know, I hope that helps.

Jason Frazell: 42:45

That's amazing. I really, I want to thank you for being on. Thank you for your vulnerability. Like bringing out this, I have, I always, well, I have to ask you, would, would 10 years ago Matt be surprised at this Matt who's talking on a podcast that hundreds of people listen to about some of the things you talked about today?

Matt Gerlach: 43:06

Yes and no. I've always, I've always I've always like, I've always believed that I'm capable of a lot. I just, and I, I mean, when I was a kid before, like, I really started having problems at school and at home. I was a very vulnerable, open kid. So like, this has always been in me, but something over the years, I think it was a lot of like, when I met my partner, like, kind of finally started getting good. I started to have to open up and like, let people in, and I think that's really a lot when like, I couldn't just skate just north of rock bottom anymore.

Jason Frazell: 43:42

North of rock bottom. You're going to hear that again. You're going to hear. I love that so much. Well, Matt, I'm sure that everybody listening wants to connect with you, find out more about you. Like what's the best way for people to continue to stay connected to you and your story and your journey.

Matt Gerlach: 43:55

I'd love for you to visit my website, mattverlack. com. I publish a weekly blog and I I have some fun stuff there. There's a quiz that I would invite anyone to take to kind of find out where you're at on your journey of life right now. And there's much more coming. And then also very active on Instagram. I am Matt Verlack and would love to see you all there. Love

Jason Frazell: 44:16

it. That'll all be in the show notes. Matt, thank you so much for being on today. Thanks for being with us, bringing your, bringing your, your truth and your love and everything else. I really appreciate it. And I look forward to having you back on again sometime in the future and continue to follow you on your journey. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you.

44:33

Thanks, Matt. Thanks for listening to another episode of Talking to Cool People with Jason Frizzell. If you enjoyed today's episode, please tell your friends, follow us on Instagram and Facebook, and give us a shout out, or take a moment to leave a review on iTunes. If something from today's episode piqued your interest and you'd like to connect, email us at podcast at jasonfrizzell. com. We love hearing from our listeners because you're cool people too.