Leslie Danford - Founder and CEO of Vitaminis

Leslie Danford, founder of Vitaminis, shares her entrepreneurial journey from working in corporate environments to launching her own wellness company during a global pandemic. Leslie discusses the challenges of creating a health-focused business, balancing family life, and the insights gained from her experience in the consumer goods and hospitality industries. This episode offers valuable lessons on perseverance, health, and business innovation for anyone interested in entrepreneurship or personal wellness.

"There's a lot of shade you can get away with in corporate, but in your own business, you live with the consequences of every single decision."

Leslie Danford, founder and CEO of Vitaminis, a clean-label functional food and beverage brand. She has always been passionate about nutrition, but she is not a foodie. For her, it's like a math equation, and it's important to cover all of your nutritional bases. In 2020 she combined her personal interests with her formal business training to launch Vitaminis. Previously she worked in beverages and consumer products at large corporations. She earned her MBA from Harvard University and her BA from the University of Chicago.

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Transcript

Jason Frazell: 0:11

Everybody, my guest on the show is Leslie Danford. She is the founder of Vita Minis. Leslie, so great to have you here. Welcome.

Leslie Danford: 0:19

Thanks for having me.

Jason Frazell: 0:20

Yes. Leslie, I always like to find out, and one of the cool things about being a podcaster is I get to talk to people from around the globe. And, I think people have heard that you're probably not from around the globe. You're like American or maybe Canadian, but Leslie, just like to start off, like where are you joining us from today?

Leslie Danford: 0:39

I'm in the Chicago suburbs. It's a nice sunny day here in Chicago.

Jason Frazell: 0:42

Yes. It's beautiful. We were just catching up. We're recording this April 9th, which is the day after the eclipse. And it sounds like you got an spectacular view out where we are here in New York. We got a bunch of clouds with, it was, it was kind of strange. It was weird. It got dark, but it wasn't like interesting.

Leslie Danford: 0:58

Yeah, we did have to drive a couple hours for the spectacularness, but yeah, it's pretty cool.

Jason Frazell: 1:02

And you made it. Excellent. So we're going to talk about a variety of things today. We're going to talk about what you're doing now. We're also going to talk about what's led you to today. I think it's for some people just as interesting or sometimes more interesting. And you've done a lot of things. So let's just kick off and love to have you share with, with the audience, anything that you think would be useful for us to know about your journey as we kick off today.

Leslie Danford: 1:26

Yeah, so I think it's interesting how life kind of brings together your passions and kind of sends you on a path and you don't always know where it's going to end up. But I've always been passionate about nutrition. I think it actually started when I was a kid. My dad, who's a scientist, was kind of in charge of the meals. My mom traveled for work, which I think was kind of unusual in the 80s. And my dad was not a foodie at all. So dinner was always like, here's your protein, here's your vegetable, or it was like, you know, components. So that's how I think about food. It's like making sure you get all the components for your machine that is your body. And I've always kind of thought about it that way. And I'm always into that because I believe if you take care of yourself in that way, you can prevent illness and really have more energy and kind of improve your life overall. It's kind of like the fuel you put in your car, right? So that was always my passion personally, but at the same time it's really hard to get that done with whole foods. You know,

Speaker 3: 2:20

it's

Leslie Danford: 2:21

just hard. It's like hard to get it all in. And then I also learned over time that processed foods make it hard for your gut to even absorb vitamins. A lot of our produce doesn't even have that much vitamin content anymore because of industrialized farming and things like that. So then I started looking into supplements. In my personal life, but there's a lot of issues with that. So when I was pregnant, I took pregnancy vitamins, but they make me sick, like they make you nauseous. They're just really intense. And then I tried gummies, but they're full of sugar. You feel like you're coating your teeth with sugar every day. And so this was always kind of like a thing I dealt with in my background life. And then professionally I worked in consumer products and then I worked in beverages in the alcohol industry. So while I was working in the alcohol industry, we were seeing all this research come through about clean label, functional beverage, nutrient dense foods. And I thought, yes, like this, I need this because I personally was like, this is what we need. I need that personally. But I was like, we're never going to do anything with this information because we're in the alcohol industry. So this is kind of going out for a few years. And then I ended up leaving that industry and going to the hospitality industry right before the pandemic. And bad timing. So I got laid off and that's when it all kind of came together. I got laid off and I was home with my kids. Schools were shut down and everything trying to get everyone's nutritional needs met, thinking about vitamins and how to make sure our immune systems are ready in COVID still didn't like gummies, still didn't like pills, and it just kind of like all came together at that point.

Jason Frazell: 3:53

I have so many questions, so many questions. I'm laughing because I didn't, as a consumer of alcohol, I would never think that alcohol companies would be that, would be paying that much attention to, like, food trends.

Leslie Danford: 4:11

Well, it just comes through, like, any research that you get. It might be like flavors. I mean, if you think about trends overall right now in the population, most of them are health and wellness oriented. So if you're working in the alcohol industry, and by the way, people are drinking a lot less. I mean, there was a COVID spike, but generation Z does not drink alcohol the way our parents did or their parents did.

Jason Frazell: 4:32

Absolutely.

Leslie Danford: 4:33

So if you're in the alcohol industry, it's like you see that coming. And then you know, the wellness stuff is coming and it's like a little bit of a catch 22. Yeah,

Jason Frazell: 4:40

I was just not to get too much into this, but I think it does relate. Two things. One, things are legal now that were not legal 20 years ago in a variety of states and Illinois marijuana, THC is legal.

Speaker 3: 4:52

Certainly,

Jason Frazell: 4:53

certainly legal here in, in New York state as well. And you can walk down the streets of New York and smell it everywhere. That was not a thing 20 years ago or wasn't legal at least. Two, I just saw an article. That one of the trends and maybe it was Gen Z is actually non alcoholic beverages. Oh

Leslie Danford: 5:07

yes. And

Jason Frazell: 5:08

like, and that's crazy to me.

Leslie Danford: 5:10

Oh, it's a big part of it is because people are using cannabis and then they want like the drink with it, but not double down and then part of it is health trends. So it's both. It's not all health. It's not all good.

Jason Frazell: 5:22

No, no. Yeah, no, this is not purely, but I, but laughing is I'm 46. So for me, the idea of like going out to a bar as somebody who would would like to drink alcohol and like. Drink sometimes is like, I'm not ordering a non alcoholic beverage. That's just like, not a thing that I would probably do. Yeah. I mean, they're going to drink water. Yeah. I was

Leslie Danford: 5:41

skiing in January and I went to apres ski and a whole table of guys ordered athletic brewing. So that not, and I just, I was like, interesting, very interesting.

Jason Frazell: 5:54

Well, Leslie, so thanks for sharing that first part of your journey. I want to talk a little bit. You had. A very unique situation with your family and starting a business. And then you also mentioned in COVID. And for those of us who had young kids at home during COVID, I think Chelsea Handler, the comedian was saying, we all need extra therapy. There's no doubt in my family. That was tough.

Speaker 5: 6:18

Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 6:18

Real tough. Having a four year old on a tablet on Zoom is not a winning combination when you're both trying to work. It doesn't really work especially when you have two working parents, which is what we have in our house. But I'm really curious, you actually started this business when you were, you know, like, you were expecting.

Speaker 3: 6:33

Yes, I learned that.

Jason Frazell: 6:35

And, and, and, yeah, no, yes, please, all welcome. And. As we were talking about, you actually ran this business with a newborn, like an infant. So let's talk a little bit about, about that. And then we're going, we're going to get into like some of the, the business things and the health and wellness. But like, I saw that I'm just, my mind is blown. How? Cause I, I, you know, dad too, watch my wife. Yeah.

Leslie Danford: 6:57

I get that reaction a lot, but it's interesting. So I have four kids. My first three, I was working in corporate jobs, structured they were in daycare and it was very structured. And then with my fourth, I did find out I was pregnant right when I was just about to launch the company. And so a couple impacts, one is I gave myself like a nine month timeline basically, where I was like, I got to get this product out the door so that I at least have a little bit of breathing room. in the newborn phase, where it's like, at least it's out. So I found that helpful because it was like a deadline imposed upon myself. But pros and cons. I mean, when I think about that time running a business in the newborn, it was not stressful. I think the reaction people have is like, Oh my gosh, that's so stressful. How'd you do it? So difficult. I don't remember it feeling that way. And I think it's because when you own your own business, you're calling the shot. It's like, if you want to do the work, do the work. If you want to do the work at 10 p. m., do the work at 10 p. m. If you want to do the work while you're breastfeeding, do the work while you're breastfeeding. It's like you can control it. So it didn't feel like in corporate where maybe you're only working 9 to 5, but you're really stressed because you want to go to your kid's soccer game, and you have a meeting that goes until 5, and you can't get out of it.

Speaker 3: 8:06

Right.

Leslie Danford: 8:07

You're like a victim almost of it, whereas, In the other, in the vitaminy sense, I didn't really take any time off, but it felt better to me. And I don't know if that's a personal thing, or if that

Jason Frazell: 8:17

would be true for everyone, but, also, Leslie, not that, you know, not that you asked for the marketing advice, but the answer should just be, it was really simple. I just took my vitaminies and my energy was so good. It's like somebody's podcast up and they're like, you're like, and I had more energy than I've ever had in my life. And I would say, I could have done this twice.

Leslie Danford: 8:33

I, you know, it's funny though. I really do think like, you know, people talk about self care and it's like, what is that? It's like a manicure. I think basic self care is taking care of your nutrition because you do feel better and sleeping and drinking water. It's like not that hard, but it does make a difference.

Jason Frazell: 8:49

It does. Yeah. And as somebody who also pivoted from a corporate career to running my own thing, the brain required to run your own business, arguably, I think is more, for my, is the capacity to be sharp in the mind. Because the decisions are all on you versus like you said, you work in corporate, you've got one thing you need to be really good at, but then you've got departments that do all these other things. And now it's like, you're the, like you said, you're the, You're the, you're the marketer, you're the social media manager. You're all these, you're the nutrition person. You're also the person who has to clean up the customer service things. And that takes a lot of brain space because you're context switching. And most corporate jobs, you're not context switching all day.

Leslie Danford: 9:29

Totally. And I'd add two more things to it.

Jason Frazell: 9:31

The other

Leslie Danford: 9:32

thing I would add is it's like an accountability thing. Like in corporate. It doesn't matter how driven you are. There's a part of you that's like, well, I did my part. You know, I did my part

Jason Frazell: 9:39

totally.

Leslie Danford: 9:40

You know, it's not your checks

Jason Frazell: 9:41

coming.

Leslie Danford: 9:42

Yep. And you, and like, if it doesn't work out, you know, it's not like all you, but like in your own business, it is all you. So that's one thing that's draining. That's almost like an emotional drain. And the other thing that I think is. Challenging that I didn't really appreciate is in corporate. There's a lot, we talk about it as like shade. I remember talking about it. It's like, there's a lot of shade, make a mistake, weaknesses, whatever. There's a lot of shade to get away with if you will that, but in your own business, you live with the consequences of every single decision. So it's like, let's say you procrastinate a lot or you're impulsive or you have a temper and you snap at a vendor or something like it's all right there. Which I personally I'm thankful for that. Cause like how often do you get to really grow like that, but it's hard to face all of that and grow personally while you're doing all the work. It's challenging.

Jason Frazell: 10:32

It is. Before we kind of move into what you're up to now I'd love to spend a couple minutes on the partnership required with your family to make this all work too.

Speaker 3: 10:41

Yeah. This

Jason Frazell: 10:41

is, cause this isn't, this isn't just you. Running a business. This is a family decision. You've got children. I don't know if you have a partner or not, but like, this is a family thing. This is not just you going, Hey, mom's going to go do this. So how I love to talk about kind of your thought process with that. If you're with a partner, how that went and then how you're able to get everybody. On the same page with that. Cause that's a big shift. And I say, this is somebody who also made the shift to my wife works in corporate. I worked in corporate when we met and then I did my own thing and she still works in corporate. So it's a team decision.

Leslie Danford: 11:13

It is like multiple levels to it, but I married and my husband and I actually met in college at the Chicago entrepreneurial group. So we were sitting being entrepreneurs. We met in this club. He went on and did the entrepreneurial thing pretty much right away. And I did the corporate thing. Sure. And then in these circumstances, we have explicit conversation where I was like, Hey, I think this could be a chance for me to actually explore this entrepreneurial thing I've always wanted to do. And he was like, okay, yeah. So we kind of like had that discussion. It's almost like turn taking or something like that.

Speaker 5: 11:47

Yeah.

Leslie Danford: 11:48

So that was part of it. I'd say the other thing too, is. We bootstrapped. So there's a financial investment part of it too. And the way we manage that side of things. Is just breaking off little chunks. It's like, okay, we're going to put a little bit in, see if it works. And if it does work, we'll put a little bit more. So it wasn't like an enormous bet all at once. Sure. Like you can just quit at any time, you know, and you just kind of take it as

Speaker 3: 12:12

a

Leslie Danford: 12:13

test. And then the third thing is I think one mistake people make when they're doing their own thing is they think they can like kind of do it on the side or like do it in their free time, but you can't, you know, this, so like that was the other thing is. Having three kids and now four, I cannot watch four kids and run a business. So like keeping all that infrastructure in place, I mean, after COVID, obviously when everything was gone, but you know, having childcare, continuing to outsource the things that we outsourced when I was in corporate, because I can't take on all that extra stuff and do this. So that's. I think that's something people don't necessarily think of, but you have to take it seriously. Like if you're going to do it, you have to treat it like it's a real job. Otherwise it will never become more than a hobby.

Jason Frazell: 13:00

I don't know if, do you watch shark tank at all?

Leslie Danford: 13:02

A little bit.

Jason Frazell: 13:03

That's, that's one of the, that's one of the filters for most of the sharks on there is they'll say, Hey, are you doing this full time? And somebody is like, well, I've also made it. They go, I'm not interested in investing because they just, they, like you said, they know that you can, you know, like you're taking investor money at any, you can, yeah, it's not for me. And then the investors left holding the bag with a out of business business.

Speaker 3: 13:23

Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 13:23

Versus like, we've actually bet our family has bet something on this thing.

Leslie Danford: 13:28

Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 13:29

And that's important. Yeah.

Leslie Danford: 13:30

Right. No, totally. And even if you don't quit, it just can never be as big as it could have been if you had dedicated. And it's funny. I actually went back to work for a short period of time during Vitamin Ease and I thought at the time that I could kind of keep going and, and looking back on it, yeah, it was going, but when I went back full time on it, I achieved so much more. Obviously, I mean, yeah, well,

Jason Frazell: 13:56

yeah,

Leslie Danford: 13:56

yeah, it's and also,

Jason Frazell: 13:58

and also the idea that when you have a corporate job, like, I don't know if you had to like go into a conference room and hide you're doing work on vitamin E is when you're doing your job or your boss is like, Hey, can we talk? And you had like, it's something to do with vitamin. It's just be my experience of that is it would just, it just becomes stressful. And it's not good for your mentally. Cause you're, I mean, and so you're serving two masters. And you also know, and like highly likely, Leslie, you were way more passionate about. Your business. Then you worry about your corporate job because it was your thing.

Leslie Danford: 14:27

Naturally. Right. Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 14:29

Yeah, naturally. Very cool. So let's talk about funding. So you said you and your husband were bootstrapped it. Did you end up, have you ended up raising any capital for the business?

Leslie Danford: 14:39

Yes. So we basically had an amount that we felt comfortable putting into it. And then especially now that vitamin E's is into retail, that's a whole nother level of funding. Cause you're funding a lot of inventory. A lot of these retailers require a big upfront investment just to get in the door and then support them with marketing. So it's different when it's like a little kind of website business growing ground up versus retail is bigger. So I have now raised angel round. I'm in the process actually right now. And it started with friends and family, cause those are the people that know you the best and take those bigger risks. But now bringing on more angels that I don't know, but I've just pitched them, they get it, they see the potential. So it does shift things quite a bit mentally. It's like, Oh. Now, people that I don't even know are putting their backing behind it. It's, it's exciting. Cause it means I've built something that people believe in besides just me and my friends. But it's also puts a little bit of pressure on and it just changes the feel a little bit.

Jason Frazell: 15:37

Yeah. It changes the feel. It's not totally your business anymore. Got to put people like, Hey, how, Hey quarterly, we want to know how this is going.

Leslie Danford: 15:45

Yes. I'm trying to get ahead of that by doing those updates proactively. But yeah, it's different. It's good though. Cause it forces you to be a little bit more buttoned up.

Jason Frazell: 15:53

Totally. But yeah, and the idea that, and you said this as a, without the accountability and it wouldn't stay on your business, you can like, I don't know, I know last quarter wasn't that good. I'm not going to look at the numbers today, but like people are going to want to know the numbers when they put money in.

Speaker 3: 16:06

Yeah. So

Jason Frazell: 16:07

let's, so going into that now, what. You mentioned retail. How did you know it was time to go into retail?

Speaker 3: 16:18

It's a really good question. Well, because

Jason Frazell: 16:20

that's a, that's a, well, because that's a, and I'm just from working with a lot of entrepreneurs and watching Shark Tank a lot. This is a question they get a lot on Shark Tank too, because it is a beast, right? Like the big, the big purchase orders, the scale, Especially, you know, and I don't know where you're distributing right now, but depending on the retailer, they have these, they have these extremely strict requirements around a variety of ways that they'll even write you a check for a dollar because they needed to know that it fits into their, into their 3PL and their logistics system as well.

Leslie Danford: 16:51

Totally. No, it's a really good question. And I wish I could say I had it all mapped out from the beginning, but. The reality is, when I launched in the, around the pandemic time, there was no choice but to go into e commerce. Like, that's just where you had to go. But because everyone was doing that, the price of doing paid acquisition online, so social media marketing, search marketing is so expensive. The number of sticks in my head when I looked into it was 6 a click. So, so it, and that's not even a purchase. That's just a click. So it's brutal. It made no sense.

Speaker 3: 17:23

So

Leslie Danford: 17:23

so I was doing grassroots, like sampling word of mouth, slowly building without paying for any customers. And it was just really, really slow. So I remember, I think it was like around the one year mark. I added up. You know, all the sales, it was 18 months and I could count on my fingers how many thousands, it was so small and I thought I can either, I either have to dump a bunch of money into advertising or I need to go into retail. It was like, I have to do something to take it to the next level, but I, the other thing thought that was happening is when I started the business, I didn't know, I don't think anyone knew if people are even going to go back to shopping in person. But by the time this 18 months point came, it was very clear that when it comes to food and beverages especially, people want to go to the grocery store. They like going to the grocery store. They want to taste it. They want to look at it. They want to touch it. And online, you're buying a 12 pack of vitamin E's. In the store, you're buying one. So it's like a very, it's an easier entry point to try it. And so I knew that was the way to go as opposed to just dumping a bunch of money into e commerce. I thought, okay, the pandemic is a couple of years behind us. Now people are going back to the store. You have to be omnichannel. So we ended up launching these singles in store and they have a QR code on them. Okay. So if you like it, you know, you spend 5 on this, you like it, you scan the code, you drop your email on our website. We can funnel you to a 12 pack, which is 49. 99 and a subscription. So it's kind of like this nice.

Jason Frazell: 18:53

That's very cool, Leslie. I always love to ask anybody that interview who's an entrepreneur, a variety of questions. So if you've listened to any episodes, you might know these, but I want to first ask you why? And I think you've answered a lot of this because it matters to you and your family is what I heard in your answer. Yeah. Oh, you know, why? Why? Why? Why? Why Vitamins? Like. What is it that's so inspiring for you about it?

Leslie Danford: 19:18

I mean, the nutrition, I really do believe that like good nutrition solves a lot of problems, but it's really hard to do it on your own, like with food and even with the supplements out there. So I just felt like the world needed an easy, tasty, fun thing. To just integrate into your diet to make you feel like okay, I'm getting a little bit extra I'm checking some of these boxes. I don't have to stress. I didn't have to suffer. It's not another chore. It's like a fun tasty clean way And I didn't see anything out that like that out there. It was either like pills, vitamin pills, or buy a juicer and juice all your stuff from scratch. There was no kind of like clean middle ground. And it was what I needed. So it was like one of those true stories. Serving my needs. And maybe there's some other people out there that need that too.

Jason Frazell: 20:05

Yeah. I la I la I was, you saw me laugh about the juicer. I'm like, anybody who has a family is like, we're not juicing. That is time, but also the amount, the amount of, the amount of storage and then the mess that it makes, like, it's just not a thing. So I think you answered my second question is what problem does it solve? Cause you know, every product does. So like, let's expand upon that a little bit. What are some of the, you know, The changing trends and demands, but also what problems this solve. Cause there, this is a crowded space. Just going to say it. There's a ton of things. There's whole stores called GNC that sell, and some of them are not going to be competition. All they're like, you know, protein powders, but you can walk in and there's a variety of products on the same. So what makes like, what's the problem that vitamin E is uniquely solves.

Leslie Danford: 20:50

So I think overall consumers are getting more educated about nutrition and health and wellness and more people know and it's funny because I live, I live in this, but I forget sometimes the average American maybe doesn't even think about vitamins, doesn't even think about it, but over time we're moving that way. So people are understanding, they take care of their body, they eat better, they need to be clean and take, you know, vitamins and that kind of thing. But at the same time, the existing options are difficult. Like not everybody is going to get the juicer and do all the whole foods. Supplements are tough. Like pills are hard to swallow. It's a chore. You forget to do it. They make you sick. I heard they sometimes will even stick to your stomach lining. And when they do colonoscopies, they're like finding pills. Like

Jason Frazell: 21:32

the biding. Oh, that's gross. Yeah.

Leslie Danford: 21:33

They're just not natural and they have all these ingredients. that help with the manufacturing process that people don't want to eat. People are reading labels now more. Gummies, tons of sugar. Sugar is like the new enemy, right? Public enemy 101 now. So that's the problem with gummies. They are maybe tasty and easy, but you're eating candy every single day. And then in terms of like shots, there's a lot of other shots out there. If you're looking for that like quick juice shot, but they are often very, very strong flavors like ginger, turmeric, pepper, and they require refrigeration. See you have to. Yeah, drink them right away or quickly. And by the way, that annoys the retailers as much as it annoys the people.'cause like these shots, they gotta move them out so quickly. So vitamin solves a lot of those problems. It's easy, tasty. It's basically orange pineapple juice. This one's a berry banana, so it's fruit. Mm-Hmm. No refrigeration required, no mystery ingredients, easily digested. Some of the digestion and the nutrient absorption can happen in your mouth. Like right when you start, it's going in. That's cool.

Jason Frazell: 22:31

Yeah.

Leslie Danford: 22:32

So it just checks a lot of those problems off the list.

Speaker: 22:36

The Talking to Cool People podcast is brought to you by Jason Frizzell Coaching. Jason works with amazing people who are looking to find and develop their passion and purpose and create their journey to wherever it is they want to go. Check us out at jasonfrizzell. com, Facebook, or on Instagram. Jason loves hearing from anyone who thinks it would be cool to connect, to be coached, to Or to be a guest on our show, email him at podcast at Jason for sale. com or DM him on Facebook and Instagram. And now back to some more amazing conversation on talking to cool people.

Jason Frazell: 23:16

So I'm going to ask you this and we're just getting to know each other, but I didn't, I heard you have a, you have a, a hospitality. You did some hospitality work. And I think you said consumer packaged goods. I haven't heard you say anything about being a food scientist.

Leslie Danford: 23:31

No, I'm not. And actually that is where I've had to outsource a bit. That's what I

Jason Frazell: 23:36

was going to

Leslie Danford: 23:37

ask you about for this. Yeah. And then, but you're right. I mean, there's a lot of technicalities about like, when you say food science, like there's like a chemistry stability, like shelf stable process point of view, but there's also like the regulatory side of things and label claims. And those two areas I've had to outsource, but it's funny. The food scientist said, I've worked with a couple now. And it's funny how you realize why a lot of products on the market are the way they are. You know, I said, okay, we want no added sugar. We want no mystery goodies, like laying out what I need. We need these vitamins. And what came back had added sugar or sweeteners in it or colors. And I look at them like, Oh, this is great. What, wait a second. I thought we saw, we were going to do that. And it's like, Oh,

Speaker 3: 24:23

you have

Leslie Danford: 24:23

to, you have to add sugar or people won't buy it or you have to add color. Yeah, it really is. Like the vision is important because you have to kind of push against all of the structural blocks to do something different.

Jason Frazell: 24:37

Yeah. Well, and so there, it was a little bit of a leading question. The reason, reason I'm asking is I'm sure people are listening or probably have great ideas for food products. And I wanted to highlight you as somebody, you don't need to be a food scientist. You just need to know what you want and then you outsource it. And full disclosure, my mother in law is a food scientist. She worked at Kellogg's, so she did cereal and she did a lot of the, she was the person that the marketers go, we want to say this about our stuff. And she'd go, you can't say that. You can't say that worked with the FDA. And then she wrapped up her career at in Chicago at DMI, which is a dairy dairy management Institute. They do all the gut milk stuff. They represent the dairy farmers of America and did a lot of food science. And she is a food scientist, but she's not a visionary. Because I think, like, my, when I hear about food products, a lot of times I think about, and this is my own, Assumption about it's my own bias, I guess, is like, Oh, this person like knows a lot about food, but you just know what you want for you. And for your family, you know enough about taste and like what vitamins you want, but you don't need to know all these things.

Leslie Danford: 25:38

I think it's a great point. I'm glad you brought that up because

Jason Frazell: 25:42

yeah,

Leslie Danford: 25:42

there are a thousand things you could tell yourself that would tell you, you can't do it.

Jason Frazell: 25:47

Right. I'm not a food scientist. I don't know how to do it. Yeah.

Leslie Danford: 25:50

You know, I have kids. I don't have time. I don't understand this. I don't understand that. I don't know what to do. I'm too busy. Yeah, that's normal. I think for people to kind of face all of that, but there, you don't need any of that stuff. And even me, I mean, I worked in the alcohol industry, which is a completely different industry. People think, Oh, you must've known what to do because you worked in the alcohol industry. No, it's completely different. And I was in corporate in a like little role. I wasn't doing everything and I wasn't in. juices, supplements or anything. I didn't deal with the FDA at all. So yeah, I think it's great that you point that out because if you really are passionate, you want to get something done, you just got to figure it out. You're going to figure it out.

Jason Frazell: 26:28

Yeah. And there's people that can help you along the way. Also, I was, I had a smile about the alcohol because alcohol is self shelf shelf stable by definition, isn't it? Because it's

Speaker 3: 26:36

like alcohol keeps it

Jason Frazell: 26:38

clean. Keeps it clean. So let's talk about challenges you've had. Again, my own assumption, I am not a food person in terms of like, I don't have a passion for creating food product. To me, it seems hard to manufacture at a, at a way that's cost effective. Like that's my outward thing. And again, I just keep going back to Shark Tank for this one, because they get a lot of food products on there. And a lot of the time, the big thing they need money for is to reduce the cost of manufacturing, to get it to To get it to a place where people will go, Oh, that's competitive enough. That I'll, I'll buy that. And maybe it can, you know, like you, like I can buy kombucha. Kombucha juice is probably in some ways a competition to your product. Cause it's shelves it's in the refrigeration, but it's like, yeah, right. Probiotics and the idea that we need to get it to a cost where you can then mass market it as opposed to like certain people don't care. They're like, that's the product for me and my family. We have lots of disposable income. But we also know here in the United States, I think worldwide and greed, inflation, inflation in the food market is a little out of control. So. You know, what are some things that you've learned having to go out and get this, you know, both both put together and created like the recipe, but then you've had to have it go manufactured? What are some things you've learned about that process?

Leslie Danford: 28:02

Yes it's a really great question, cause that is, That is where a lot of the hard work happens. It's not like you just have an idea and it just I think when I look back and a lot of this is like me reflecting in hindsight But you really have to take a long view because when you're first starting out co packers owe you nothing. They're not going to sign contracts. They're not going to give you the best pricing. They're not going to prioritize you. You're literally just a stranger. You know? And so a lot of the early stages, you are pitching yourself and your product to them. You are like trying to win a spot. You know, it's not like, Oh, I have this great product. Who wants to get it? You know, you're lucky you. No. So that's one thing I think it's just like a mindset shift that these people are running their businesses. They have these giant production lines and for them to stop production and move it over to, to manufacture, whatever random thing you came up with, that's unproven is a big ask. So that's part of it. And then the same thing goes with pricing. You know my first productions of both products were not profitable. I think they

Speaker 3: 29:06

were

Leslie Danford: 29:07

about break even. That's okay though, because I, A, convinced my co packer to do a small run. Cause I didn't, I knew I didn't want to make 30, 000 bottles. I just wanted to make 5, 000 and they, so they were like, listen, this is only worth our time if we charge you a higher price, but it was worth it to me. Cause it's basically an investment to figure out, get it in the market, see if people like it, whatever. So that is the other thing with taking the long view is. You're not going to have the best margins on day one. You might not even make a dime on day one. And this is, I don't know if like, this is true for everyone because I know some other business types, people are able to get great margins right away, but at least for shots and like beverage production, it's difficult. Like that, that margin comes with scale.

Jason Frazell: 29:54

Yeah. And as a there, there, to me, there's like a psychological barrier of pricing over a certain amount when you're buying like a shot of something or some sort of health drink where Like to me, there's just a psychological barrier, even if you can afford it, that like, there's a price point you kind of need to hit to have like my, like me and my wife walk in and go, Oh, I'd like to get some of those for our family. And this makes sense for our family.

Leslie Danford: 30:17

Yeah, it's exactly right. Like you can't, you can't charge what you want to get or what you think you should get. You have to charge what people are going to pay.

Jason Frazell: 30:23

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's all about the value. Leslie, what about. Let's ask the big question. What do your kids think of it?

Leslie Danford: 30:32

Oh yeah, they love it. They're very involved.

Jason Frazell: 30:34

That's so cool.

Leslie Danford: 30:35

I have four kids. One of my four is very, very picky and sometimes they'll drink vitamin E's and sometimes you won't. So full confession, not all of them love, love, love it. But the other ones do, they like to hear about the business side of things. They like to see it in the market. They love when their friends bring it to school, their lunches. And my two year old loves them. She'll get like a little straw and just like, sip them right out of the bottle. That's so

Speaker 3: 30:58

cool.

Leslie Danford: 30:59

Yeah. It's fun. It's nice to work on something that I can like talk to the kids about, which I didn't really do that in my prior career. So

Jason Frazell: 31:05

sure. Yeah. You weren't talking to your kids about alcohol business,

Leslie Danford: 31:08

right? Or if you are, you're always like, you're like,

Jason Frazell: 31:11

yeah, mommy helps do these things that. Adults drink.

Leslie Danford: 31:16

Yeah. You want tequila. It's really great. Wait, no, it isn't. I don't know. No, no,

Jason Frazell: 31:19

no, not it's great. When you turn 21 until then. Not at all. Do you, are there, are your kids involved in the business at all? Like, do they come in and like, do you teach them anything about what you're doing?

Leslie Danford: 31:29

Not a ton, but I will have them do photo shoots or we do sampling sometimes at like their sporting events or things like that. Nice. I try to keep it. Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 31:43

And does your husband involve, does your husband get involved in the business at all?

Leslie Danford: 31:47

A little bit. I joke with him that he's like my biggest investor, my biggest like, you know, board member or whatever. But I think we both like mutually, it's got kind of like a separation of church and state a little bit. Oh yeah.

Speaker 3: 32:00

So on

Leslie Danford: 32:00

occasion, I'll ask him for advice on something and definitely have him taste like samples and things like that. Or, you know, maybe he has an introduction to something in the entrepreneur world that might be helpful. But for the most part, try not to, I try to keep it like a little bit separate. So it doesn't overshadow my life either, by the way.

Jason Frazell: 32:18

Yes, my wife and I have a very similar thing. Too much involvement is not, has not been great for our marriage either. So we're like, you're like, yeah, a little bit, but also a separation.

Leslie Danford: 32:28

Totally.

Jason Frazell: 32:29

What are some of the, what are the, some of the things that were surprising to you? As you have gone through your entrepreneurial journey that nobody, because I know you're, you're well educated, you've got it, had a great corporate career, but there's just some things you don't get taught period. Like you just like, it's only the school of hard knocks. What are some things that you've learned since starting this business that Like nobody could have taught you. And I was like, well, and I'll say this too, Leslie, I laugh about this because you and I could go walk into a Barnes and Noble and see shelves upon shelves of how on how to like start a business, run a good business, all these strategies, you can get your MBA. I know you have your MBA, all these things, but there are things that you have learned that you can never read about period.

Leslie Danford: 33:13

Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 33:13

Isn't it crazy? Yeah.

Leslie Danford: 33:15

Yeah. I know. That's why I gotta write the book.

Jason Frazell: 33:17

Yeah. So what, so what are, so what are the, what are the, some of the things that you've learned that you're like, well, I didn't really know that this was going to be a thing as I went out and had this journey.

Leslie Danford: 33:25

Yes. So on that note, just in general, like some things you literally cannot learn until you go through it. So it doesn't matter. Even if it wasn't a book, you could read it and be like, Oh yeah, I get that. And then you're like, Oh, so there's that. I think one thing is I thought starting a business was just about hard work. People are like, Oh, starting a business is so hard. I'm like, Oh, I can work hard. I've worked hard all my life. I can work harder than the rest of them. That is not the hard part. I mean, it is hard work, but the hard part is. Kind of managing the uncertainty and the mentalness of it because I realize a lot of what we do in life is to cut down on uncertainty, maybe I'm speaking for myself. A lot of what I do, I plan, I organize, I try to stay on top of things because I like to know what's gonna happen, like uncertainty is scary. There is absolutely no way you can get away from that in your own business. There is a huge amount of uncertainty. Still, day one there was six months in, now I'm two and a half years in, there's still a lot. And it's, it's nerve wracking. Like, is this going to work out? Whatever, all of it is, is, am I going to get this account? Am I going to be able to get this done? And is this going to be received well? So that has been very challenging and I did not expect that. The, like the, the uncertainty of being able to just accept the journey. Like whether this works out or not, I'm having fun and I'm glad I did it and I'm learning a lot. It's like that whole kind of repositioning and living with that is. That was a big lesson for me. The other thing, when you ask the question that I used to think differently, I used to think when it came to starting a company, you just have to have a good idea. Just have a good idea. And then you can have company. It's actually like, part of it is your idea. And almost all of it is just nitty gritty day to day work. Just not even sexy stuff, but just like the nitty gritty, because the reality is my idea that I had for vitamin E's. It's different now because I'm always learning. I'm adjusting. I've adjusted the formula. I've adjusted the packaging. I've adjusted my sales channels, which we talked about. So yeah, you can't, you need a good idea, but do you really? I mean, there are so many stories about entrepreneurs that had one idea and pivoted to something completely different. So it's all, it's like, it's like 5 percent idea and like 95 percent just coming back, learning from what goes well and what goes poorly, continuing to evolve and not giving up.

Jason Frazell: 35:45

Yeah, I was, I was mentioned to you. I was, I had another interview this morning and we were talking and ended up with a very successful exit and he was talking about his first failure. And how he, he looking back now, it was his ego. He was so right in his mind about the way this thing had to be. And it was a tech and it's a, it was a technical product. So he was convinced it had to be this way. And he was like anal about the, the way it operated and they launched it. And nobody liked it because he didn't ask anybody and he didn't iterate. And so he's like, he's like, that's a really tough and expensive lesson to learn as an entrepreneur. And I don't think in the food industry, you can even do that. You can't really launch a food product without focus groups and having people taste it, like, because like. I mean, I guess you could, but I, you know, like the big food companies, as I know, I, I read, I think it was fat, sugar, salt, they talk about like, like even like lunchables. Oh,

Leslie Danford: 36:41

the big companies wouldn't. Yeah, the big companies. Oh,

Jason Frazell: 36:42

yeah. But yeah, like small companies are like, oh, this is what people want, but then they taste it and they're like, this isn't good. Right?

Leslie Danford: 36:48

Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 36:50

But even in that

Leslie Danford: 36:50

example of that guy you're talking about some people might've called it, you know, Quits at that point. Okay. I tried it. Yeah. It didn't work out. I'm done. Yeah. Well, just the ability to kind of come back and iterate and try again is actually what made him successful because the alternative would have been. Just stop.

Jason Frazell: 37:06

Yeah. Well, Leslie, what he did, and it sounds like it's probably what you're doing as well with your sales channels is what he actually did, Is he pivoting completely in his next business? He went door knocking at WeWorks and it's a, it's a swag like t shirt company went door knocking at WeWorks actually sat in a room and said, Hey, could you just give me some feedback on the quality of this t shirt? What do you think about this design? Hey, would you order from this website?

Speaker 3: 37:29

Hmm.

Jason Frazell: 37:30

And people go, yes, no, maybe so. And you take the, and he is iterating and iterating and iterating until you have something beautiful. Like what I'm, I'm guessing you've done is like, Hey, taste is for me like honey, my husband. But also you don't want it just'cause your husband's biased. Of course. Yeah.

Speaker 5: 37:44

Yeah.

Jason Frazell: 37:45

And he's either, but like, Hey, like, like I said, have your kids try it. Have your kids' friends try it. Like what do you think of this? What does it taste like? And being able to iterate and do that to go like, oh, this is the thing.

Leslie Danford: 37:55

Totally.

Jason Frazell: 37:57

Because, yeah, no matter, I mean, I think this is one thing that's pretty much proven in the food market. You can have, you could, I think you could create something that arguably could be the healthiest thing ever created if it doesn't taste good. Most people aren't going to eat, aren't going to do it.

Leslie Danford: 38:11

Yes, and that is something I did learn from my time in alcohol and beverages that apply is we called it liquid to lips. Like taste is key, it has to taste good and then people have to kind of believe that it's giving them the value. Yeah. So if you can kind of get it to taste good and it delivers that value, they don't think they think it's worth it. That's it. Then you're done.

Jason Frazell: 38:31

And then also depending on the type of products, like the mouthfeel of it. Like, what does it feel like when it's like that? That sensation of it is just, it's just, it's a, it's fascinating. Well, Leslie, as we wrap up here, let's talk a little bit about what's next for you and for the company, what you all are up to. And then of course, where can we find, obviously you said the website, but you said you're in retail now. So let's talk about what are the different places that people can go and. Consume and delight themselves with vitamin ease.

Leslie Danford: 39:01

Yeah. Well, my favorite place is our website, vitamin ease, brand. com. I love to have that direct relationship with consumers that are a higher profit

Jason Frazell: 39:08

and a higher profit margin. Let's be very clear. That's also nice.

Leslie Danford: 39:12

Shipping, you know, of course

Jason Frazell: 39:13

yeah,

Leslie Danford: 39:14

because then you can get on our email list, we send great emails every week with recipes, educational content about your gut and different vitamins and what they do for you. So. That's the best place. Drop your email, send you coupon. But aside from that, we are on Amazon and we just launched on Walmart marketplace. So those are kind of like if you're a Walmart marketplace shopper and Amazon shopper, it's easy. Like I use Amazon a lot. So if that's easier for you, great. It's subscribe and save whatever. And then in brick and mortar, we are in two chains in the Midwest, fresh time farmer's market and the fruitful yield. So that's about 80 locations in Chicago area in the Midwest. Where you can find us in the vitamin section.

Jason Frazell: 39:55

Very cool. Not to get into the too many details is obviously a private company, but have, I'm more interested in your opinion on how have the, how have you felt about your channels now that you've gone into retail in terms of like the percentages and have you had any surprises there? Or like, has it been, I'm just curious, like how you feel about that as the owner.

Leslie Danford: 40:13

Well, I think on the retail side of things, I don't think I realize there's a lot of almost mandatory spend built into it, so you've got your distributor. And then the distributor also wants you to promote through them. Like, Hey, buy a table at our, our show and pay to advertise on the distributor website. Then you've got the retailer. They, they have a lot of baked in promotions. Okay. We've got four sales a year. We require you to fund this percent discount. I didn't realize that. I thought it was more autonomous. Like, okay, I'd like to put my product on sale. Or I like to advertise, but it really is built in like you were almost required. So that informed my pricing to some extent, actually ended up raising my price because I knew that just would build some buffer for discounts that are going to happen anyway. Sure. Yeah. Consumers are going to get it at that price anyway, but then it allows me to kind of appease everybody along the, along the path.

Jason Frazell: 41:03

Yeah. Yeah. It's such a complex industry.

Leslie Danford: 41:08

Yeah. And some of it, you just kind of don't know until you get into it. Like we said, you can read it a thousand times, but until you

Jason Frazell: 41:13

get into it. Like here's how you do business with Amazon and then Amazon or Walmart decides that week to change their policy around something. You're like, Oh, that's all out the door. Now I've got a new thing. I have, I have, I have friends who work at Walmart and Amazon and the e commerce space, so I understand they're always changing policies around and such as sellers and there's obviously they're always trying to tweak their business model too, just like you're tweaking yours. Well, Leslie, I want to. Thank you for coming on, sharing with us all these things. Thank you for putting out a product that makes a difference in the world to keep us healthier. I think it's so, it's so easy to, to not, and we're just, yeah. And I think you're just a really good example of someone who saw something that they wanted for their family, which just one more time, go back to Shark Tank, so many of the products on Shark Tank. Are because they're like, Oh, well, my, my family wanted this. I saw this would be valuable for my family. And you're like, Oh, wait, there's a business here. And next thing, you know, next thing, you know, maybe we'll see you on shark tank, who knows, or maybe we'll see you on, maybe we'll see you somewhere else or whatever, whatever's next for vitamin. He's a really appreciate your time today. Thanks so much for coming on and best wishes to you and the family.

Leslie Danford: 42:17

Thank you very much.

Jason Frazell: 42:19

Thanks so much, Leslie.

Speaker 2: 42:22

Thanks for listening to another episode of Talking to Cool People with Jason Frizzell. If you enjoyed today's episode, please tell your friends, follow us on Instagram and Facebook, and give us a shout out, or take a moment to leave a review on iTunes. If something from today's episode piqued your interest and you'd like to connect, email us at podcast at jasonfrizzell. com. We love hearing from our listeners because you're cool people too.